Pistoleer Archive

After much thinking, I have finally decided that pistoleer is in DIRE NEED of a fix, here are some reasons:

• Pistoleer is the only elite combat profession where which OTHER elite combat professions use weapons that fall into our specailty and are better, in many ways, then what we get ourselves (bounty hunter gets scatter pistol and commando gets launcher pistol)


• Bounty hunter gets pistol specials far better then the ones we get


• Many pistoleer specials are broken or bugged, or we have other very similar ones


• We have almost no defense modifiers


• We stand little chance in PVP unless we have a geno pistol which can cost up to 3 million credits - well out of the price range of the average player, and even then, we are relativly weak


• We do not cap speed at master, while rifleman does, this makes little sense because rifleman is suppost to do alot of damage with slow attack speed, while we are meant to do less damage but with a much faster attack speed


• If you master only pistoleer then you have +74 pistol speed, however if you master bounty hunter instead then you get +90 pistol speed! And that's


• To sum it up, by mastering pistol specialization in the bounty hunter skill tree will give you more power when it comes to pistols then mastering pistoleer


• Pistoleer is pretty useless unless combined with bounty hunter or smuggler, all elite combat professions should be able to stand alone


• Pistoleer has only two state inflicting specials - health shot and pistol melee defense, most other combst professions have far more

Here are some reccomend fixes that should go ALONG WITH the skill tree

• Commando does just fine with it's launcher pistol and no pistol speed mod, butthe launcher pistol is rarely used because of this, give the launcher pistol to pistoleer instead, alsowhy should bounty hunter get apistol speed mod when commando does not (not that commando should get a pistol speed mod)? Take away some of the bounty hunter pistol and carbine speed and accuracy mods, and give the scatter pistol to pistoleer, bounty hunters do just fine using marksman carbines, so they should be fine with marksman pistols.


• Give torso shot and fire knockdown to pistoleer and carbineer respectivly as master abilities, or remove them fromt he game compleatly

And here is my reworked skill tree, I also have explainations of the new/reworked abilities

Novice pistoleer

Skill Mods

• 
  
  Pistol speed +10


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/abilities

• 
  
  DX2 Pistol Cert


• 
  
  Health Shot 2


• 
  
  Republic Blaster Cert
  

  ---

  
  

Pistol Grips 1

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +15


• 
  
  Pistol Accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Point Blank Single 2 (Give it a damage modifier of x4 and a speed modifier of x1.5)

Pistol Grips 2

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +15


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5


• 
  
  Quickdraw +1 (A passive ability that removes the delay when switching weapons, also note that +1 is the maximum modifier for this skill)

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Scatter Pistol Cert

Pistol Grips 3

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +20


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Body Shot 3 (Give it a damage modifier x5.5 anda speed modifier x2)

Pistol Grips 4

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +20


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Point Blank Area Single 2 (Give it a damage modifier of x2.5 and a speed modifier of x1.5)
  

  ---

  
  

Pistol Tecniques 1

Mods

• 
  
  Defense Vs. Stun +50


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Disarming Shot 1 (give it a damage modifier of .75 and a speed modifier of 2, but make it auto-unequip the targets weapon and give them a 3 second delay)


• 
  
  Ranged Damage Migration 1

Pistol Tecniques 2

Mods

• 
  
  Defense Vs. Blind +50


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5


• 
  
  Pistol Accuracy While Moving +10

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Double tap (give it a x3 damage modifier and a x2 speed modifierand make it target health and another random stat pool,also, a 50% tobleeda random stat pool)


• 
  
  Geno Pistol Cert

Pistol Tecniques 3

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5


• 
  
  Defense Vs. Dizzy +50

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Stopping shot (give it a x14 damage modifier and a x4 speed modifier with a 50% chance of dizzy/knockdown)


• 
  
  Ranged Damage Migration 2

Pistol Tecniques 4

Mods

• 
  
  Defense Vs. Knockdown +60


• 
  
  Defense Vs. Posture Change (down) +30


• 
  
  Pistol Accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Fast Shot (Can hit your target up to 10 times with a x1.5 shot in one combat round, also has a 50% chance to do each of the following: blind, dizzy, knockdown,and stun, this attack has a x5 speedmodifier)
  
  
  
  

  ---

  
  

Pistol Marksmanship 1

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +15


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +5


• 
  
  Pistol aiming +3

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None

Pistol Marksmanship 2

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol speed +10


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +10


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +15

Commands/abilities

• 
  
  Launcher pistol cert

Pistol Marksmanship 3

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +10


• 
  
  Pistol accurazy while moving +5


• 
  
  
  

  Pistol Aiming +3

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None

Pistol Marksmanship 4

Mods

Pistol Stances 1

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Pistol Melee Defense 1 (An attack that can only be done within 6 meters of your target, damage modifier of x1.5 and speed modifier of x1, 50% chance of knocking down the target)

Pistol Stances 2

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None

Pistol Stances 3

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Pistol Melee Defense 2(An attack that can only be done within 6 meters of your target, damage modifier of x2 and speed modifier of x1.5, 50% chance of knocking down and dizzyingthe target)

Pistol Stances 4

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None
  

  ---

  
  

Master Pistoleer

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +25


• 
  
  Melee Defense +15


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +15


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +25


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +30


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +30


• 
  
  Pistol Aiming +4

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  DE-10 Pistol cert


• 
  
  Disarming shot 2 (Disarming Shot 1 (give it a damage modifier of x1.5 and a speed modifier of x2.5, but make it auto-unequip the targets weapon and give them a10 second delay)


• 
  
  Torso Shot (give it a damage modifier of x4.5 and a speed modifier of x3, also give it a 100% chance of random stat burn)


• 
  
  Multi target pistol shot (give it a damage modifier of x4 and a speed modifier of x2 and make it target everything within range that is directly in front of you or directly to either side and everywhere in between)


• 
  
  Ranged Damage Migration 3
  

  ---

  
  

This gives master pistoleer a +140 speed mod, a +165 accuracy mod, and a +70 accuracy while moving mod, if all of these changes are implemented, we will be able to stand a chance against our rifleman counterparts and will be able to PVP as well as any other elite combat profession!

---

Elord wrote:

After much thinking, I have finally decided that pistoleer is in DIRE NEED of a fix, here are some reasons:

• Pistoleer is the only elite combat profession where which OTHER elite combat professions use weapons that fall into our specailty and are better, in many ways, then what we get ourselves (bounty hunter gets scatter pistol and commando gets launcher pistol)


• Bounty hunter gets pistol specials far better then the ones we get


• Many pistoleer specials are broken or bugged, or we have other very similar ones


• We have almost no defense modifiers


• We stand little chance in PVP unless we have a geno pistol which can cost up to 3 million credits - well out of the price range of the average player, and even then, we are relativly weak


• We do not cap speed at master, while rifleman does, this makes little sense because rifleman is suppost to do alot of damage with slow attack speed, while we are meant to do less damage but with a much faster attack speed


• If you master only pistoleer then you have +74 pistol speed, however if you master bounty hunter instead then you get +90 pistol speed! And that's


• To sum it up, by mastering pistol specialization in the bounty hunter skill tree will give you more power when it comes to pistols then mastering pistoleer


• Pistoleer is pretty useless unless combined with bounty hunter or smuggler, all elite combat professions should be able to stand alone


• Pistoleer has only two state inflicting specials - health shot and pistol melee defense, most other combst professions have far more

Here are some reccomend fixes that should go ALONG WITH the skill tree

• Commando does just fine with it's launcher pistol and no pistol speed mod, butthe launcher pistol is rarely used because of this, give the launcher pistol to pistoleer instead, alsowhy should bounty hunter get apistol speed mod when commando does not (not that commando should get a pistol speed mod)? Take away some of the bounty hunter pistol and carbine speed and accuracy mods, and give the scatter pistol to pistoleer, bounty hunters do just fine using marksman carbines, so they should be fine with marksman pistols.


• Give torso shot and fire knockdown to pistoleer and carbineer respectivly as master abilities, or remove them fromt he game compleatly

And here is my reworked skill tree, I also have explainations of the new/reworked abilities

Novice pistoleer

Skill Mods

• 
  
  Pistol speed +10


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/abilities

• 
  
  DX2 Pistol Cert


• 
  
  Health Shot 2


• 
  
  Republic Blaster Cert
  

  ---

  
  

Pistol Grips 1

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +15


• 
  
  Pistol Accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Point Blank Single 2 (Give it a damage modifier of x4 and a speed modifier of x1.5)

Pistol Grips 2

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +15


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5


• 
  
  Quickdraw +1 (A passive ability that removes the delay when switching weapons, also note that +1 is the maximum modifier for this skill)

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Scatter Pistol Cert

Pistol Grips 3

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +20


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Body Shot 3 (Give it a damage modifier x5.5 anda speed modifier x2)

Pistol Grips 4

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +20


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Point Blank Area Single 2 (Give it a damage modifier of x2.5 and a speed modifier of x1.5)
  

  ---

  
  

Pistol Tecniques 1

Mods

• 
  
  Defense Vs. Stun +50


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Disarming Shot 1 (give it a damage modifier of .75 and a speed modifier of 2, but make it auto-unequip the targets weapon and give them a 3 second delay)


• 
  
  Ranged Damage Migration 1

Pistol Tecniques 2

Mods

• 
  
  Defense Vs. Blind +50


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5


• 
  
  Pistol Accuracy While Moving +10

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Double tap (give it a x3 damage modifier and a x2 speed modifierand make it target health and another random stat pool,also, a 50% tobleeda random stat pool)


• 
  
  Geno Pistol Cert

Pistol Tecniques 3

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol Speed +5


• 
  
  Defense Vs. Dizzy +50

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Stopping shot (give it a x14 damage modifier and a x4 speed modifier with a 50% chance of dizzy/knockdown)


• 
  
  Ranged Damage Migration 2

Pistol Tecniques 4

Mods

• 
  
  Defense Vs. Knockdown +60


• 
  
  Defense Vs. Posture Change (down) +30


• 
  
  Pistol Accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Fast Shot (Can hit your target up to 10 times with a x1.5 shot in one combat round, also has a 50% chance to do each of the following: blind, dizzy, knockdown,and stun, this attack has a x5 speedmodifier)
  
  
  
  

  ---

  
  

Pistol Marksmanship 1

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +15


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +5


• 
  
  Pistol aiming +3

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None

Pistol Marksmanship 2

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol speed +10


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +10


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +15

Commands/abilities

• 
  
  Launcher pistol cert

Pistol Marksmanship 3

Mods

• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +10


• 
  
  Pistol accurazy while moving +5


• 
  
  
  

  Pistol Aiming +3

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None

Pistol Marksmanship 4

Mods

Pistol accuracy +10

Pistol speed +10

Pistol accuracy while moving +5

Pistol Aiming +3

---

Pistol Stances 1

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Pistol Melee Defense 1 (An attack that can only be done within 6 meters of your target, damage modifier of x1.5 and speed modifier of x1, 50% chance of knocking down the target)

Pistol Stances 2

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None

Pistol Stances 3

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  Pistol Melee Defense 2(An attack that can only be done within 6 meters of your target, damage modifier of x2 and speed modifier of x1.5, 50% chance of knocking down and dizzyingthe target)

Pistol Stances 4

Mods

• 
  
  Melee Defense +10


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +10


• 
  
  Pistol speed +5


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +5

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  None
  

  ---

  
  

Master Pistoleer

Mods

• 
  
  Dodge +25


• 
  
  Melee Defense +15


• 
  
  Ranged Defense +15


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy while moving +25


• 
  
  Pistol Speed +30


• 
  
  Pistol accuracy +30


• 
  
  Pistol Aiming +4

Commands/Abilities

• 
  
  DE-10 Pistol cert


• 
  
  Disarming shot 2 (Disarming Shot 1 (give it a damage modifier of x1.5 and a speed modifier of x2.5, but make it auto-unequip the targets weapon and give them a10 second delay)


• 
  
  Torso Shot (give it a damage modifier of x4.5 and a speed modifier of x3, also give it a 100% chance of random stat burn)


• 
  
  Multi target pistol shot (give it a damage modifier of x4 and a speed modifier of x2 and make it target everything within range that is directly in front of you or directly to either side and everywhere in between)


• 
  
  Ranged Damage Migration 3
  

  ---

  
  

This gives master pistoleer a +140 speed mod, a +165 accuracy mod, and a +70 accuracy while moving mod, if all of these changes are implemented, we will be able to stand a chance against our rifleman counterparts and will be able to PVP as well as any other elite combat profession!

---

- Awoa part 2 -

Yellow City Pimp

---

DaLoco1 wrote:

Ok. A few things.

1. Amodified republic blaster has FAR better damage than a geo pistol or launcher pistol.

2. Geo pistols are a LOT less than 3 million... try 150k-300k for 200-250 damage, and 500k + for 270 damage and beyond.

3. Stopping shot is much more powerful than any BH special.

4. BH's only get +80 speed, not 90.

5. +140 pistol speed at master is overkill.. you will cap ANY weapon in the game with +100 speed. You can cap most pistols at around 80-85. The accuracy mods you suggest make pistols more accurate than a rifle, which is most certainly not the original intent of the designers.

6. Basically, I think you need to learn a bit more about both professions before you post stuff like this, and you're asking for too much. But there are some good ideas there.

---

Message Edited by RebRifle on 08-26-2004 01:20 PM

---

RebRifle wrote:
Wild bill there is something your not understanding only reason rifleman has the advantage is because there is no effective mind heal. OUr speed eeds to be that high because we need it just to shoot it once a second with no specals. And also we have no other profession to stack with just do master pistoller with the bh pistols and smuggler pistols and see how fast ya shoot, also pick up master marksmen isn't that 100 speed? and even with jst te standered 90 speed we get at master we still shoot strafeshot2 at 4 seconds. So it kinda balances out. also you have much higher defences then us and also with that template you can hite mind just like us, delay our attacks, knockdown. ect ect.

Message Edited by RebRifle on 08-26-2004 01:20 PM

---

Ah here comes the Rifleman retort.

No there is something you don't understand. I have mastered and played every combat profession in this game, including Rifleman. I know what is broke and it's rifleman.You have high damage weapons with high AP therefore they should be slow. A swordsman without any additional mods anda damaged sliced Powerhammer does not attack once per second with the default attack and also hits the mind. Why should rifleman be any different? As a pistoleer I have a better chance of beating a swordsman than Rifleman even with the Swordsman's mind attacks. It's simple High Damage Low Speed, Low Damage High Speed, but you Riflemen want it all. You want damage, speed, accuracy and the ability to hit the unhealable pool. The fact that a rifleman can cap his speed with any rifle with less than +15 in speed mod attachments is another clue that your speed mods are out of whack. A smuggler/pistoleer like myself needs +23 in speed mods to cap with any pistol.

Also you do know that a pistoleer's and fencer's dodge mods do not work against rifleman? Why? Because the rifles over the top range mods negate active defenses leaving the pistoleer with only his minimal ranged defense as protection.

As for stacking, sure you can stack. You can stack your defenses with melee or even pick up pistoleer or carbineer if you like. What your trying to say is that a Master Riflemanby himselfshould be equal to a Master Pistoleer/Desperato/Rogue. Last I checked the skill point usage for M. Rifleman < M. Pistoleer/Deperato/Rogue.

---

Wild__Bill wrote:

---

RebRifle wrote:
Wild bill there is something your not understanding only reason rifleman has the advantage is because there is no effective mind heal. OUr speed eeds to be that high because we need it just to shoot it once a second with no specals. And also we have no other profession to stack with just do master pistoller with the bh pistols and smuggler pistols and see how fast ya shoot, also pick up master marksmen isn't that 100 speed? and even with jst te standered 90 speed we get at master we still shoot strafeshot2 at 4 seconds. So it kinda balances out. also you have much higher defences then us and also with that template you can hite mind just like us, delay our attacks, knockdown. ect ect.

Message Edited by RebRifle on 08-26-2004 01:20 PM

---

Ah here comes the Rifleman retort.

No there is something you don't understand. I have mastered and played every combat profession in this game, including Rifleman. I know what is broke and it's rifleman.You have high damage weapons with high AP therefore they should be slow. A swordsman without any additional mods anda damaged sliced Powerhammer does not attack once per second with the default attack and also hits the mind. Why should rifleman be any different? As a pistoleer I have a better chance of beating a swordsman than Rifleman even with the Swordsman's mind attacks. It's simple High Damage Low Speed, Low Damage High Speed, but you Riflemen want it all. You want damage, speed, accuracy and the ability to hit the unhealable pool. The fact that a rifleman can cap his speed with any rifle with less than +15 in speed mod attachments is another clue that your speed mods are out of whack. A smuggler/pistoleer like myself needs +23 in speed mods to cap with any pistol.

Also you do know that a pistoleer's and fencer's dodge mods do not work against rifleman? Why? Because the rifles over the top range mods negate active defenses leaving the pistoleer with only his minimal ranged defense as protection.

As for stacking, sure you can stack. You can stack your defenses with melee or even pick up pistoleer or carbineer if you like. What your trying to say is that a Master Riflemanby himselfshould be equal to a Master Pistoleer/Desperato/Rogue. Last I checked the skill point usage for M. Rifleman < M. Pistoleer/Deperato/Rogue.

---

- Awoa part 2 -

Yellow City Pimp

---

DaLoco1 wrote:

God, you don't know anything.

Well... looks like everyone here has some fallacies....

You dont NEED +100 speed. 85 will work fine. Pick up master marksman and you have nearly the exact same speed thata BH has, +78. Another thing... there are pistols that can be made that hit JUST as hard as a jawa ion rifle.

At the same power, a Jawa will hit harder than a Geo. Damage is automatically reduced 50% for a Geo weapon by armor that has Stun protection because a Geo Pistol is AP0, while a Jawa is AP1. I can severely curb the damage of a Geo pistol with a Stun Helmet and PSG. This is not "as" true for Jawas.

Ive seen the 350 max damage geo pistols, and I know that an eyeshot from one of those is just as good as headshot 3 with a rifle.

AP0 vs. AP1.

Also.. rifles cannot dabble in anything to make them stronger. But, on the other hand, pistols can, and can get their mods to much better than rifles have.

Which means you are saying that everyone's Skill points are not equal. Why should one profession be incredibly more powerful than another just because that other profession has ANOTHER profession that has some of the same weapons and skill trees?

Pistols have a skill that sets fire, better defense, a headshot thats just as good as headshot is, and a ranged KD and delay attack.

"Pistols" is generalizing. It is not the fault of a Pistoleer that BH and Smuggler also use pistols. We should not be punished for that.

Simply put, with the right gear a pistoleer can excel in PVP. If you don't believe that then quit the game or stop whining.

No.. what you have describes is : "By spending more skill points than a Rifleman, you can come close to being as effective in PvP as a Rifleman." So, would you spend $25 for a bland pair of shoes while someone else buys that same pair of shoes for $10?

---

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Elord wrote:

We do not cap speed at master, while rifleman does, this makes little sense because rifleman is suppost to do alot of damage with slow attack speed

---

---

DJODoc wrote:

"We have almost no defense modifiers"

umm maybe you should take a look at some of the other combat professions before making this statement. Pistoleer has the best defenses of all of the ranged professions with dodge, the def vs state modifiers, and melee/ranged defenses.

---

• We don't need certs for the scatter or launcher, those are weapons for other professions.


• Our speed and accuracy mods are just fine where they are (it's rifleman that's broke here their mods need to be scaled back), ours are inline with Carbineer.

• Fixed specials


• increased ranged defense mods. We are supposed to the fencers of the range classes yet we have less ranged defense than every other combat profession including melee.

Let's not try to make Pistoleer uber, it should be in line with other combat professions.

Message Edited by Wild__Bill on 08-26-2004 03:50 PM