Pistoleer Archive

if they just came out and plainly said the bh is meant to be the best in duels, because 90% of their skills points are put towards hard to get skills then i dont think the pistoleers would be complaining so much today. sure you guys are the masters of pistols, with tons of skill points left over so you can be the "best pistol user" while using your pet or being a master doctor, or whatever your preference. stop trying to even compare the pistoleer to the bh, because they are 2 seperate classes with 2 VERY different requirements as far as skills go.

as i realize i am posting this in the pistoleer forum... let the flaming begin

I've never understood why BH's think that just because it takes more skill points to become BH means it should be the most dominant combat profession. If you haven't noticed, over half of the skill points for BH's has nothing to do with combat (scout, camps etc..) So how does climbing hills faster and making a good camp make a BH better at combat than a pistoleer? It doesn't.... you guys are NOT boba fett. I don't think BH's are overpowered. I think they have advantages and so do pistoleers, carbineers and rifleman. Everyone just needs to stop crying nerf because they got pistolwhipped in a pvp.

I've never understood why BH's think that just because it takes more skill points to become BH means it should be the most dominant combat profession. If you haven't noticed, over half of the skill points for BH's has nothing to do with combat (scout, camps etc..) So how does climbing hills faster and making a good camp make a BH better at combat than a pistoleer?

It seems implied since, like so many pistoleers point out, 4 pistol boxes = 50 speed / 50 accuracy. You think the Devs were just smoking crack when they did this? Maybe, but more likely it was as a reward for a class that wastes sooo much skill points on the worthless skills you just mentioned. And who said theyre better? Why do pistoleers look at the +1 speed and whatever other accuracy bonus, discard all the other modifiers pistoleer gets, and scream "why are bounty hunters better with a pistol than me?!"

It doesn't.... you guys are NOT boba fett.

Alot of people make that comparison. What do the smugglers compare themselves to? HAN SOLO! Who would you say is a master pistoleer in the trilogy and NOTHING ELSE? I'd say Han would be closer to a master smuggler/pistoleer.

I don't think BH's are overpowered. I think they have advantages and so do pistoleers, carbineers and rifleman.

I don't get it, I start out thinking you're just a knee jerk pistoleer who got killed in a duel with a BH and you make the very point I've been professing. We couldn't be more in agreement here.

Everyone just needs to stop crying nerf because they got pistolwhipped in a pvp.

Same thing here, only thing I'd add would be "or knocked down with a carbine." At some point the Devs will fix the defensive modifiers and you'll see a dramatic reduction in knockdown-spam kills and the game will be better for it. Don't take away an offensive capability if there's a defensive counter for it that doesn't work the way it should.

Heres the thing.

BH's spend 2x the Skillpoints just to be equal to an expert Pistoleer. A BH needs to spend 2.5x the skill points just to get an edge on a Pistoleer.

BH gets the same rewards + a different damage shot thata Pistoleer gets at 1/2 a BH's skill points invested.

That allows a pistoleer to still get a mastery in anotherprofesion, while the BH will get no other mastery.

To say a BH should get less pistol skills/damage/speed out of his pistol line is retarded while spending 2x the skill pts. That is the reason the skill point cost is so high!

Man I missed being drunk in EQ! Screen all distorted, character movin from side to side, and everything you say comes out " Steenky says sdaek lknd lnweod". What do we get? If we take some spice we vomit. Thats pretty weak. How come no one complains about torso shot? You ever get hit by it? It'll fill your health bar black with wounds. Its hard to understand why the slight modifiers to speed and accuracy are more important than a devasting PvP attack such as that.

If you were keeping up on beta they made it no secret that BH would be very powerfull.

---

Steenky wrote:
It'll fill your health bar black with wounds. Its hard to understand why the slight modifiers to speed and accuracy are more important than a devasting PvP attack such as that.

---

I haven't been hit by it myself, but a Master Doctor can drop wound heals on you for half your health bar. Easy as that.

Wow, a constructive post from a bounty hunter

A few nitpicks:

"designed to be better pvp players"

That says it all really...why I disagree in every way possible.

You don't design a player, you design a profession, first off...your wording doesn't surprise me though, considering you are in fact saying the "profession should make the player...".

Second, the ideal PvP game allows for a lot of profession variety, all of which can compete in various ways, none of which have, in all scenarios, a clear chance of winning. Otherwise, any serious PvP player would just player that one profession (bounty hunter in your world. Boring for everyone, and not very well thought out. Why not have sharpshooters, pistoleers, carbineers, combat medics, commandos, creature handlers, etc., all battling it out with various tactics, weapons, and skills? (sounds fun)

Thirdly, if the profession itself is the primary determinant for victor in a PvP battle, why even PvP in the first place? I mean, I PvP because I thrive off the competition, the challenge, the danger, and the victory. If I were "ensured" victory and "winning" status by choosing Bounty Hunter....who would that make it fun in any way? SureI'd be "unstoppable" unless Iencountered another bounty hunter...but where's the challenge? The sweet taste of a well executed plan that results in victory?

I think players have to WORK to be the best. You don't get it handed to you. I dont want some freshly power leveled bounty hunter standing a CHANCE against a veteran SWG PvP rifleman..for instance. I mean, again...why bother playing if profession determines victory?

Also.....

I don't think, if you read OUR forum issues, that you'll see any request for a "nerf" in bounty hunters. What Master Pistoleers seem to want is to be, without question, the best pure pistol profession. If someone else can be a "master of the pistol", by getting 4 boxes in bounty hunter...they raise their eyebrow. It's not a class balance issue really, it's a design issue. Why not have BH use bounty hunter specific weaponry/skills? Leave power/balance EXACTLY as it is? That's as far as we go officially in dicussing anotehr profession, and I don't think that's over the top. And as we said, not the entire community agrees with the need to compare to unrelated professions. We expect the devs will give us the ultimate answer, posssibly just a "well, BH are another way to get great with pistols, what can we say??". I certainly don't expect to get an answer from other players...this has been going on since release.

Don't YOU want us to ask the question? Yes, you do. You, like me, like most everyone here, wants the answer straight from the developers, otherwise, we have to deal with all this crazy talk about BH vs pistoleer. Join with us in waiting on the answer, and focus on the other 90% of our forum

The problem with having BH's use BH specific specials is that we use three different classes of weapons, AND we usually take skills from outside the profession eventually. There's also no way to prevent other professions from taking BH skills and mixing them with their own profession. Which begs the question of how exactly do you make BH specials....specific to BH??

I completely agree that having one particular profession shouldn't necessarily amount to automatic victory in PvP. That just sucks all the fun out of it entirely. If anything, I see BH's as being geared with a slight inclination towards a single form of PvP, namely one on one combat. Personally, (and this is strictly personal opinion of course) I don't necessarily think that a BH with pistol IV is superior to a master pistoleer with regards to using a pistol. When it comes down to it, the only serious advantage we have is in terms of our ability to target the mind pool, and the flame effect from the torso shot. Pistoleers definitely get the better defensive bonuses, accuracy (especially while standing and moving), and raw damage (ie. stopping shot). That pistol whip is certainly nothing to complain about!

So how do we find a point of balance on this so to speak? We're really left with two choices here. We can either remove capabilities from the bounty hunter, or we can add capabilities to the pistoleer. The problem is that I'm not entirely sure what you would add or remove in this case.

"the ideal PvP game allows for a lot of profession variety, all of which can compete in various ways, none of which have, in all scenarios, a clear chance of winning. Otherwise, any serious PvP player would just player that one profession (bounty hunter in your world. Boring for everyone, and not very well thought out. Why not have sharpshooters, pistoleers, carbineers, combat medics, commandos, creature handlers, etc., all battling it out with various tactics, weapons, and skills? (sounds fun)"

This is not a class based game, its a skill based game, you can't compare profession to profession as stand alones for pvp. You need to compare skill points spent because anyone can become 2 or more of these professions. A serious PvP player will find the BEST use of all 250 skill points to win in PvP, and I can guarantee you that dumping them all in 1 profession is not the best way. There hasn't been time for anyone to figure out the best combo, the best "out of the box" is a BH, its almost the noob combat profession. You don't think at all. You dump all your points into 1 profession and think wow I'm special.

There are so many combinations of every other profession that can be done with the same 217 skill points, it just takes more time for people to figure out "the best". There are many powerful combinations that people have yet to explore or even try, that will hands down own a BH.

They balanced based on total skill points because this is the only true limiting factor that wont change in the game.

A person who is a Master of 2 98 point elite professions is on even ground or even has an advantage over any master BH.

The game is designed assuming everyone uses as close to all 250 skill points as possible, and balanced based on final builds involving a fully developed character.

To get to Master BH may be less weapon exp, but the investigation line takes as long as it does for this reason.

The time it takes a person to get Master BH, is basically the same as the time it would take someone to Master 2 other professions, do you think this is a coincidence?

A BH mission takes 45 minutes to do on average after novice, to hit master you are talking 200+ hours of straight game play for master. The exp numbers may be different but the time for the BH to get master, and any one else to master 2 professions is the same, thats the key.

People need to stop looking at the immediate, because the game will never go through this inital phase again, its a temporary world atm, where EVERYONE is leveling up and there are not many people who are done "leveling".

A master Pistoleer/Rifleman/Carbineer, is DESIGNED to have other skills with it. You are not meant to spend 98 skill points and not use the other 152.

A BH is designed to be able to stand almost on its own. Its just a different way of coming to the same end.

It doesn't matter what skills are called or, what they do they ultimate goal is to have a balanced mature environment, because this full leveling one we are all in now will NEVER exist again in the game.

It takes the close to the SAME PLAY TIME for a person to use 250 skill points in advanced professions no matter which ones they choose. Any profession other than the BH IS NOT MEANT to be used alone.

People need to stop thinking of the old class based games, this is a skill based game. Experience is relative to the professions they are in. This is an entirely new way of thinking for most experienced MMORPG players, and its really a great system if people could understand it.

This is to the pistoleers.

I see you guys saying you want to be the best pistol users in the game.

You are.

What exactly are you missing about this?

You have the second best pistol offense, and the best pistol defense by far.

You always overlook your defensive capabilities.

You are a pistoleer, you are not a purely offensive killing machine.

Nowhere in the meaning of Pistoleer does it mention you being the king of offensive tactics.

Please, look over your OWN stats before you look at someone elses.

Bounty Hunters are PURELY offensive, we have no defense bonuses.

Pistoleers are both offensive and defensive, they have high defense bonuses, as well as very high offensive capabilites.

Now please, go look this stuff up.

Tolac,

"bh is meant to be the best in duels"
"Bh's were designed to be the better pvp players"

This is what he said. That does a few things.

#1 it leaves no room for ANY alternate "combination of profession skills" that would either be better in overall PvP (or as good as for that matter), OR in a one vs one scenario (which is a duel). Which of course you disagree with.

You can, if you like, in my entire post, replace "profession", with "combination of profession skills", and read it exactly the same, the argument stays the same.

#2 he uses "pvp player" incorrectly (that's a minor issue..but telling)

#3 He even suggests that when he's fighting a commando that is using a battlefield weapon, since this is in fact "PvP", then the bounty hunter should be "the better pvp player". He assumes all circumstances when he uses the word "PvP". It's a broad, generalized statement that gets no mercy when you come onto another profession board and post nonsense with the sole intent of getting folks heated up.

Boba,

Now that in some ways I agree with. I do wish everyone would chill out and wait to see #1 the test center updates, #2 what pistoleer is like once you reach mastery. I'm enjoying the profession at the moment, personally.

Your comments about defense..well, yes we do overlook defense because as luck would have it, they simply do not work in actually PvP vs other elite/hybrid professions, at least that I've been able to show in actual dueling tests. So yes, we do overlook what simply "isnot there". But you hint at the other issue, which is that we should "wait" before making assumptions on overall PvP potential. Defnese HAS to be fixed before the tables are even enough to draw even the first conclusion.

And yes, a BH pistol 4 user can in fact, have similar defense to a master pistoleer, think outside the box (not that there is anything wrong with it...I'm just pointing that out)

Other than that, I think you too want a clear answer from the devs to settle it once and for all..IMO it's the only way to get this off the "hot issues" list and free this board up from countless posts about it.