Pistoleer Archive

Thread: So, are bleeds supposed to ignore Dodge?

Tullius_Cicero
Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:47 am
#1

Because that is what they do, at least some of the time, at least those bleeds delivered by NPC attacks.


Leveling in the Tusken Fort yesterday, got hit with a couple of bleeds, checked the combat spam -- nothing but misses and dodges.


Does this happen in PvP as well? If so, Swordsmen and Riflemen have a counter to Pistoleer-Fencer potential uberness -- slap on the mind bleeds and eventually the target cannot hit CoB due to drained mind.

Philosopher1976
Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:44 am
#2






Tullius_Cicero wrote:

Because that is what they do, at least some of the time, at least those bleeds delivered by NPC attacks.


Leveling in the Tusken Fort yesterday, got hit with a couple of bleeds, checked the combat spam -- nothing but misses and dodges.


Does this happen in PvP as well? If so, Swordsmen and Riflemen have a counter to Pistoleer-Fencer potential uberness -- slap on the mind bleeds and eventually the target cannot hit CoB due to drained mind.






This seems like a bug to me -- you should be able to dodge ANY attack, including a bleed. Can someone test this? Tullius if you could test this, that would be awesome.






Samra Hael
Master Pistoleer • Expert Bounty Hunter
KOTOR • Scylla


Scott_Ray
Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:58 am
#3

You cannot dodge the fire DOT from flamethrowers either, this has been tested.



Scott Ray-Chilastra Server
Leader of Raythe Tech Mining
Blademaster/Master Gunfighter
Surveyor/Miner/Mercenary
2 cpu for Ore.

Tullius_Cicero
Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:10 pm
#4

Right, you can't Dodge the flame cone, nor can you Dodge disease or poison, and probably some other AOE type attacks as well, but I thought that these were already known and intentional.


The bleed thing seems a little odd though -- at +165 Dodge + CoB I could not be hit at all up to the Warlord level, although I stayed constantly moving and often blinded the Tuskens, but they got a few bleeds through (good thing they stop at one now). BTW, I could still be nailed, rarely, between CoBs, and I was hit once with CoB on during the high end spawn (the one with gore chiefs, torture lords, bezerkers and such). By this weekend I should be able to try this at +210 or at least +195; I shall report any more bleed observations along the way.

KaernLegorah
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:38 pm
#5

This has been happening for quite a while, and it does work in our favor at times. If you attack a creature with HealthShot, and it dodges, or counter-attacks, or blocks the attack the bleed will still stick. With count-attack and block I suppose you can make sense out of the bleed still sticking, but I agree that dodge should avoid the bleed altogether. But, like I said, it has been like this as long as I can remember.




----------------------------
Kaern Legorah - Eclipse
Master Smuggler-Gunfighter-Wanderer
Tullius_Cicero
Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:36 pm
#6

Another strange Dodge observation:


Somy characterwakes up in the Mos Espa cloning facility, and wondering, what the **edit** was that, check my combat spam, and see:


a Tusken warlord swings at you and misses
You use BlindSpin on a Tusken Warlord for 780 points of damage
You use BlindSpin on a Tusken Warlord for 1068 points of damage
You have been incapacitated by a Tusken warlord
a Tusken warlord uses Scatter Stab on you for 1853 points of damage, but you evade it


I scrolled up and down, looking for an actual hit anywhere, and find none. (And no counterattacks anywhere that would cause my damage, either).


Later today, the same thing happened, again with "Scatter Stab." Perhaps a coincidence that this one attack killed me twice, despite my evading of it both times, but perhaps not.


Anyway, "Scatter Stab" is just ScatterHit1 from the bottom left corner of the Fencer tree. Perhaps someone could see whether this happens in PvP as well (As I do not hardly PvP, I cannot attempt the test myself).

Scott_Ray
Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:45 pm
#7

I belive the scatter hits can bypass defenses, it says they can in the descriptions. Maybe we need Raph to test it.



Scott Ray-Chilastra Server
Leader of Raythe Tech Mining
Blademaster/Master Gunfighter
Surveyor/Miner/Mercenary
2 cpu for Ore.

Alessandra
Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:37 am
#8

This is the exact issue that has been frustrating me recently. What's the point of all this defense when there are huge gaping holes in it?


I tested this quite a lot with severalpeople in my guild.


Bleed sticks even if I evade or dodge.


Flame DoT sticks even if I evade or dodge.


Scatter attacks damage even if I evade or dodge.


This is not a freak event. This happens every single time. For all of the above, it has the exact same damage/dot/etc. whether I evade, dodge or get hit.


I didn't take any screenshots, but it wouldn't be hard to show a situation where I'm bleeding profusing, getting nailed for huge damage and burning to a crisp, even though Ididn't get hit even once.


As a sidenote, why can't we dodge poison/disease or the commando flame? There has to be some kind of defensive skill against these attacks, especially since the damage is not mitigated by the 75% pvp modifier.






Alessandra Viel
Master Gunfighter on Eclipse

Philosopher1976
Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:05 pm
#9






Alessandra wrote:

Scatter attacks damage even if I evade or dodge.





This is really important. Can anyone else verifythat wecan't dodge attacks from a Scatter Pistol?


I've already passed the bleed/DoT issue along to the Devs.






Samra Hael
Master Pistoleer • Expert Bounty Hunter
KOTOR • Scylla


Alessandra
Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:35 pm
#10

Oh, wait a sec. It's not a Scatter pistol I'm talking about. I'm talking about scatter attacks. These are specials that hit multiple pools at the same time. I'm calling them scatter attacks because the fencer attacks are called scatterhit1 and scatterhit2.


Hmm....now that I think about it further, I think I know what might be happening. The scatter attacks are basically multiple attacks rolled into one. We might evade the first attack, but the rest seem to automatically hit no matter what. Against a TKA using other specials, I was evading and dodging happily, but the moment he switched to spamming scatter attacks, I was incapped within seconds.






Alessandra Viel
Master Gunfighter on Eclipse

Philosopher1976
Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:46 pm
#11






Alessandra wrote:

Oh, wait a sec. It's not a Scatter pistol I'm talking about. I'm talking about scatter attacks. These are specials that hit multiple pools at the same time. I'm calling them scatter attacks because the fencer attacks are called scatterhit1 and scatterhit2.


Hmm....now that I think about it further, I think I know what might be happening. The scatter attacks are basically multiple attacks rolled into one. We might evade the first attack, but the rest seem to automatically hit no matter what. Against a TKA using other specials, I was evading and dodging happily, but the moment he switched to spamming scatter attacks, I was incapped within seconds.




Okay. If you're right, this is a bug, but we need to be sure. Could you do this for me ... test what you're calling "scatter attacks" and see if you *never* dodge anything but the initial attack. It could just be that the "scatter attacks" are multiple attacks and thus it is harder to dodge all of them. I need to know exactly what is going on before I tell the Devs there is a bug.





Samra Hael
Master Pistoleer • Expert Bounty Hunter
KOTOR • Scylla


Philosopher1976
Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:17 pm
#12

Thanks for the great discussion, guys. I appreciate it because it's improving my understanding of how this works. If anyone can give me a confirmation on the "spread/scatter attacks", to be sure,that would be great as well.


I'm trying to get us an answer on the bleed issue because I think it's important. Already DoTs are very important in PvP, and I think it's an issue if our main defensive ability works against every attack *except* a DoT. There's no good reason why I should be able to dodge BodyShot2 but not HealthShot2.






Samra Hael
Master Pistoleer • Expert Bounty Hunter
KOTOR • Scylla


Philosopher1976
Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:08 pm
#13

Quick Update: I don't think I'll have an answer for us on the bleed/dodge issue any time soon, because bleeds are being revamped along with everything else in the global combat revamp that's in the works. Just thought I'd let you guys know that I won't have any answers soon.





Samra Hael
Master Pistoleer • Expert Bounty Hunter
KOTOR • Scylla


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