Pistoleer Archive

What are they doing to the DoTs??

yup, I can confirm that bleed still hit you even if you dodge. It will not hit when your ranged/melee def kicks in though. Another thing is that, the poison and disease thrown by CM will always hit, is this intended?

Having played PvE extensively, I can confirm that Bleeds are not, in any way, impacted by Dodges/Evades/etc.

Here is what happens:

Fire a bleed at a mob. In your combat window it says "You hit <blah> for 'x' damage, buthe dodges it!"

But the bleed sticks, and continues to deduct 'x' damage each bleed round.

What I think is happening is the way counter defenses work is you fire at someone for 'x' damage. The game then rolls to see if you dodge it, if you do, it simply doesn't deduct the damage from the targeted pool.

However, since it simply does not deduct the damage you would have incurred to the targeted pool...the bleed state sticks because it never does damage initially anyway. So, since the attack did hit you, but simply did not reduce your damage, bleed sticks.

Because of this, multipool attacks will likely also work around dodges/evades/etc. Because when you successfully dodge, the attack does hit you, but it does not reduce points from the targeted pool...however, because the attack did connect, any other pools that would be affected will take damage.

The problem is the counter system does not actually have you dodge the attack, it simply prevents the targeted pool damage from sticking. Thus, any attack that simply has to connect with you: poisons, bleeds, attacks that hit one pool then damage another afterwards, etc...will all connect.

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Philosopher1976 wrote:
It could just be that the "scatter attacks" are multiple attacks and thus it is harder to dodge all of them. I need to know exactly what is going on before I tell the Devs there is a bug.

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I don't think that the "scatter attacks" are going through just because there are a lot of them and each has a chance of hitting; when the the chance of getting by the Dodge is zero it does not matter how many individual attacks make up a scatter, the chance of any getting through is still zero.

Now I could be wrong that my chance of being hit was zero against these mobs with CoB on (Tuskens up to Warlord, +165 and later +195 Dodge), but there were literally over a thousand attacks attempted on me in hours of gameplay and these two were the only ones that got through.

btw...this all happens because all defenses are passive not active...in other words they are applied after a hit connects. Thus, the system records that you connected for 'x' damage, rolls the defense, reduces(in the case of +defenses and mitigation) or avoids(simply does not deduct the damage); but, the system still records that you were connected with because the defense was rolled afterwards...so anything that simply requires you to connect to do additional damage, continues to do so.

Its not really a bug, its how the system is implemented that allows for these work arounds(which aren't intended mind you...it just wasn't factored in when designed).

Oh and finally...the same reasons behind dodge not stopping attacks that simply have to connect, is the same reason bleeds work on creatures/players despite resistances. Its all because the system is passive, so it records the initial hit, then reduces or removes only the damage incurred to the targeted pool.

So, for example, you hitsomething with 100% resistance to heat with a bleed using a FWG5. Hit connects for 'x' damage, system reports you hit for 'x' value, so begin bleed for 'x' so many turns, then the passive defenses kick in...creature says "ok I got hit for 'x' damage, its heat damage, I'm 100% resistant to heat, ignore damage incurred by that shot". But, since the bleed is handled first you still have a bleed state placed on you based on the initial hit.

The key thing here is dodge is not the same as a miss...its the same as any other defense in the game, it simply reduces the damage you take(but in this case 0's it) after the game records you as being hit for 'x' damage. Its all because defenses are passive.

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Alessandra wrote:

Oh, wait a sec. It's not a Scatter pistol I'm talking about. I'm talking about scatter attacks. These are specials that hit multiple pools at the same time. I'm calling them scatter attacks because the fencer attacks are called scatterhit1 and scatterhit2.

Hmm....now that I think about it further, I think I know what might be happening. The scatter attacks are basically multiple attacks rolled into one. We might evade the first attack, but the rest seem to automatically hit no matter what. Against a TKA using other specials, I was evading and dodging happily, but the moment he switched to spamming scatter attacks, I was incapped within seconds.

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And what scatter attacks do you think TKs have?

Tssr'ct Misso - ex-master pistoleer/TKM

Can you dodge the scatter attacks from the carbineer tree or do they act like the fencer scatter attacks too?