Pistoleer Archive

So this got you upset? I do, took me forever to realize why everyone is freaking out.

1) Special Moves – Disarming shot 1, multi target pistol shot, pistol accuracy cap, dodge, and pistol melee defense 2 don’t seem to be working properly.

2) Holsters – Pistols should be able to be put in Holsters when not in combat.

****3) Bounty Hunter VS Pistoleer – Pistoleers feel they should be more comparable to Bounty Hunters in PvP.

4) Gun Twirl Special Move – Pistoleers would like to have some sort of special move or flourish where they twirl their gun or something similar.

5) Certifications – Need more certifications in pistoleer skill tree. There are plenty for marksman, but only one in Pistoleer.

6) Duel Wield – Players would like to be able to duel wield pistols.

#1 OK, understandable. I think that's pretty insane too, but it's not exactly how we submitted it.

#2 Now please first read what we actually submitted back in July to decide for yourself on wording.

Pistoleer Issues Report #1, 7/25/03 on sticky first page.

#3 Then please note:

Nowhere in this report did pistoleers ask to be comparable to bounty hunters in PvP.

FIVE technical issus and FIVE gameplay suggestions were made

(we did not have a standard format for the reports, I liked the idea of having5 REAL issues, and 5 Whenever you have time issues).

This was reduced to ONE technical issue bullet, and then 5gameplay suggestions/concerns.

If you read carefully the portion on bounty hunters, you'll see that not only is the issue down-played, but the real issue is simply the title of best pistol user. If bounty hunters used something equally as effective but called something other than a pistol, I doubt anyone would have rasied it as an issue in the first place. No one asked for a nerf, no one implied a nerf, no one was seeking to be as good as bounty hunter in overall combat, they just don't like having another combat profession competing with them using the same weapon they get the mastery title on. Rifles dont, commando doesn't, tka doesnt, 1H doesnt, 2H doesnt, polearm doesnt, combatmedic doesnt...see the trend? As it is, dabbling > either BH mastery or pistoleer mastery,so it's kind of a moot point anyway. It's not even on our new issues posts, but even if it was, it didn't then, and it wouldn't nowread: "Pistoleers feel they should be more comparable to Bounty Hunters in PvP."

That's just wrong.

And regardless of that posting, the devs agree, professions aren't to be compared in any case.

I hope that at least clears it up for some. It sure cleared it up for me.

We at least need certed in EVERY pistol. I have bought an awesome pistol, Republic Blaster, which I (Near Master Pistoleer) cannot use? What's up devs? ALL the other professions (fighting) get weapons that go upwards into the 300+ damage where we get a stupid DX2 that does 140? Hello!?! Now I found out that I have to be human and certed in some faction to use this pistol? Have I not paid my dues? We get 6 pistols and they are all crap. Please do something about that.

Well, there is some comparison in there but the comparisons are valid. Like who should be a better Pistol user? The guy who spends92 total pointsto get a title that equates to the best Pistol user you can find, or the guy who spends 154 points mastering two basic professions, of which a mere 14 (29 if you count novice Marksman) is in Pistol, and then an additional 20 pts on Novice BH and the Pistol specific line...

Let's face it. The best Pistol user doesn't even need to invest in Pistoleer unless they wanted to use a DX2. Just master two basic professions (which might take you a week if you're slow), and take it from there. This isn't a whine, I'm just stating a fact.

I should clarify what I'm saying...

While the BH spends more overall points to get to BH, they only spend 14 skill pts in actual Pistol skills, plus 12 for Master Marksman and Novice BH and 14 more for the BH Pistol Line. So that's 28 total points in actual Pistol related skill boxes, or 55 total if you count the Novice and Master boxes on the way there.

The Pistoleer spends 92 points, all in Pistol related skill boxes from Novice Marksman to Master Pistoleer. And yet the Bounty Hunter, despite being a general weapon class (they have a class specific weapon and a line in Carbines as well), is clearly superior in regards to specials and overall abilities with a pistol.

Just doesn't seem right to me.

The total skill points needed overall is not a bad number. BH's are supposed to be better in combat than the other advanced professions. Not a great deal better; but a little.

I'm okay with them being the way they are now. The reduced KD time and increased HAM costs have made pistoleers comporable with bounty hunters in pisotl use. Creative BH's can still mix up the skills to win a battle (particularly with eyeshot - a mind damage shot), but they aren't a LOT better.

The thing is that we have points left over to make hybrids unavailable to a BH that are MORE powerful than a BH. Try becoming a Doctor/Pistoleer. You can put all your points in mind and use enhancements to buff all of your other stats. This will make you a powerful tank that is able to deal out death to BH players without fail.

BH's can't do that. They don't have the points.

But I digress. The correspondent's point that we are derailing is that pistoleers did not a class envy issue in their top 5 issues, but the devs responded to it like a class envy issue.

Regarding professions not being compared to each other. Bull$hit.

Why do you think CHs were nerfed?

Pretty tough to say in one case professions ARE going to be balanced to each other and in ANOTHER case they are not.

At least now BH and Pistoleer have distinct advantages and disadvantages for pistol use. Bounty Hunter gets the eye shot (which is VERY nice), and Pistoleers get the AE knockdown (which may or may not remain that way) and the pistol-whip knockdown.

Or you could go Master marks, Master scout, Master pistoleer, and pistol line of Bounty Hunter, but then you forsake the chance to do ANYTHING but use your pistol... which means no Stim-D's, no poison packs, no Rancors, and no Smuggler specials.

I think that everyone has to agree that things are more balanced now between pistoller and BH than they were 3-4 weeks ago.

We at least need certed in EVERY pistol.

I can't believe this mindset still exists. It is the most assanine thought still lingering today. Once again, this means that 2 handed swordsman need to be certed in EVERY 2 handed sword: ie lightsabres.

Please consider before starting to compare BH with pistoleer:

Master Bounty Hunter = 33 skill points left to spend

Master Pistoleer = 158 skill points left to spend

A Master Pistoleer have enough points left to become a Master Creature Handler with 52 skill points left to spend.

I think Pistoleers who don't like the fact that BH is more powerful in Pistol than Pistoleers themselves, aren't quite aware of the power you can get out of a character by making him a hybrid.

Ishidu, take into account that the 'training' involved in becoming a Bounty Hunter is very broad. They learn a variety of skills, sort of a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-nonetype. The 'training' of a Master Pistoleer focuses solely on the use of Pistols and nothing else. They learn only how to get better at using a pistol.

It's hard not to look at it that way and wonder where it went wrong.

personally i think that yes we should have access to all pistols, but bounties can have all there shots and everything. the title pistoleer stands for being able to use pistols, if we can't use them all that's like saying bounty hunter's can't actually hunt bounties down. they both make no sense, in saying that i think pistoleers should be able to use all pistols, but hey i dont really care im doin the pistoleer bounty hunter thing.

Don't look at it as skill points used in pistols.

Why don't you look into how much Pistol using experience a master pistoleer has, vs a BH with full pistol. Probably on the order of 3x as much. 3 times the experience with pistols, yet that are worse pistol users.

Hmmmmmm.

I don't care about the rest of it. A Master Pistoleer should be the best pistol user, period. "Master Pistoleer" in itself implies that it is the best pistol user. If Bounty Hunters are still supposed to be better at actual combat, the Devs need to look into putting in General Bounty Hunter abilities that would make them better, that require BH exp. The fact is they get better pistol abilities for less experience. Just make it so the Pistol and Carbine lines require alot more experience, or some such.

I don't entirely disagree with the fact that a Master BH with a pistol will beat a Master Pistoleer, but I do disagree with them getting better specials, better speed boosts and such, without having to get near as much experience as we do. It's like, just grind your crappy marksman and scout skills, then once you hit Novice BH, you can fly up the pistol tree and bam, you're better than any Pistoleer, who gradually progressed. It's suffering thorugh tons of grinding early to get instant gratification later on.

You could just give us an awesome new gun (or a huge stat bonus)once we get certed for at Master, instead. That would offset the BH advantage, so that Master Pistoleers are only better than BH's with Pistol 4 once they hit Master.