Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Jaegan, fight for us!
Now that they're taking knockdown off of disarmingshot2, what's the point of mastering pistoleer? I never use any of the pistoleer specials other than pistolwhip and occasionally disarming shot. The rest totally suck.
They've lowered the knockdown timer to 5 seconds, which as you know means we're all going to get pwned by Low Blow and Underhand Shot again.
Can you send an email to the Devs or something? Or maybe just make a jillion posts on SWG discussion? Holo seems to be reading the forums very regularly now ... we need to make sure they get the point, so they nerf knockdown the RIGHT way, based on the knockdown bug you identified. We also need *something* to make pistoleer worthwhile. Our specials suck, and the speed bug means that we're outgunned by high level carbine users.
Philosopher1976 wrote:
Now that they're taking knockdown off of disarmingshot2, what's the point of mastering pistoleer? I never use any of the pistoleer specials other than pistolwhip and occasionally disarming shot. The rest totally suck.
They've lowered the knockdown timer to 5 seconds, which as you know means we're all going to get pwned by Low Blow and Underhand Shot again.
Can you send an email to the Devs or something? Or maybe just make a jillion posts on SWG discussion? Holo seems to be reading the forums very regularly now ... we need to make sure they get the point, so they nerf knockdown the RIGHT way, based on the knockdown bug you identified. We also need *something* to make pistoleer worthwhile. Our specials suck, and the speed bug means that we're outgunned by high level carbine users.
You are reading that wrong. Therewill bea 30 sec timer after a posture change, before you can get knocked down again. There used to be a large delay in the range of 10 seconds or more after a knockdown before you could return fire, or perform another action. That delay has been reduced to 5 seconds. That is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Cry me a river, youve been enjoying a carbineer special at 1/3rd the HAM costs and our base HAM costs on our specials is 250% of what yours are and half our specials dont work either. When speeds are fixed youll be the fastest ranged weapons with some of the best defensive mods(when defenses are fixed for everyone..your not the only who are broke).
If you didnt know it wasnt supposed to be a AOE KD then im sorry, but you just werent paying attention. Next time read the description.
BTW - master carbineer doesnt get any new moves either.
They will make DA2 do something new, and they will eventually fix MTS. They aren't going to leave our Master level skill box empty forever. For all we know box will have very cool effects before this patch even goes live.
I wanna see how this plays out before I make any snap judgements. AE knockdown in its current form ruled. But AE knockdown with a 30s timer per target might not be worth fighting for, at least in PvE...
Get a clue. First of all, the knockdown HAM costs are being reduced, so don't use HAM costs as an argument. Secondly, you get your ranged knockdown long before Master. Now we don't get a ranged knockdown at all.
Your arguments are great. You're basically saying that when they fix our profession, we'll be good. Well right now your profession kicks our ass ... once you guys get +100 speed, you can shoot a carbine as fast as I can shoot a pistol. The only advantage I have over you are HAM costs, which any moron can avoid with a buff or heal.
Right now pistoleer has ZERO specials that work. Carbineer at least has enough powerful specials to make it a worthwhile class, plus much higher DPS than pistol at high levels.
How would you feel if the Devs swooped in and took away the specials you have that work, because some losers were whining about carbines? Right now the Devs are taking away the ONLY specials in pistoleer that we use. Your argument that someday the Devs will fix the bugs (speed, knockdown) that make your class unbalanced and overpowerful don't make us feel better. Go back to your own board and gloat, thanks.
My entire problem with this is that Disarming Shot 2(whether or not it was intended for Pistoleers or Carbine folks is entirely moot) was in place during beta - and during retail. Disarming Blast did knockdowns in BETA - it did knockdowns in RETAIL. It wasn't like beta was 2 weeks long. BETA was long. This is the old fashion bait-and-switch move. I really do feel for the carbineers - their specials are screwed up - they have screwed up HAM costs.
On the other hand, there is very few pistoleer skills that work (which I am confident that they will be fixed). Disarming Blast (which was not named correctly) was the reason why I became a pistoleer. I could be a medic on the back line, while I could knock down groups of people and let melee guys mop them up. I followed Beta boards and early retail boards, and Disarming Blast was not changed - surely it was intended this way as Sony had ample time to fix it.
The ideal solution is to do this: knockdown is going to have an immunity timer - which I think is great. Right now, whoever gets the knockdown first wins. Everytime. I have a TKA in my face, if I miss with pistol whip he wins. If he misses with Knockdown, I win. Simple. Use any class here. Put the timer in place BEFORE you remove AE Knockdown from pistols. Maybe you will see that it is not as overpowering as before - (which is questionable, since both sides usually have Master Pistoleers spamming this, and they somewhat balance out). For the love of the game, please take your lumps and remember what you guys learned creating Everquest. It is far easier to do modifications in small swings than try to fix everything in one big hit. It doesn't work that way. Put in the timer - let the players pound on it for a few weeks - balance after that. Fix the change position resistances - don't remove offensive power from players when the problem is with the lack of defensive power - I usally play 4-5 hours a day - I dodge maybe 1 time all night. In fact, I usually shout that I dodged it happens so infrequently.
Right now there really is no reason to be a Master Pistoleer. Sure the bonuses are nice, but you can get those very easily from BH line. Multi-shot even in the best incarnation I can see still is a sub-standard skill. Disarming Blast in its current form is reason to be a Master Pistoleer.
For now, I will wait and see how things pan out - but every class at master should get something very very unique that makes the dabblers question if they should of been an elite class, just like I drool at the fact that BH pistoleers get great things - and am a bit envious. I think they should be certifications really, but that is just me.
For all those Carbineers/BH/rest that say "Ya, no knockdowns on a mis-marked skill" - Sony had plenty of time to rename or fix the skills in beta. This is not an exploit - they left it in there, it wasn't like they were unaware of it - it was petitioned many many times. Pistoleers are going to be the ultimate grief giver in the game. I can clone, go grab a fast CDEF pistol and just spam and spam and spam Disarming Shot 2 (which will not knockdown and cause weapon damage) over and over again. So what if I take damage on my weapon with powerups and what not. I guarantee that the condition damage I take from me getting hit with Disarming Shot 2 on my CDEF is far less significant than your T21/Scatter/Melee/Laser Carbine weapons. We all know how well repair kits work. I could run suicide missions just running in spamming it as fast as possible before dying, and repeat over and over. Your main weapons will be destroyed, you will be using sub-par weapons. A group of master pistoleers could bankrupt most players, and make weapon smiths even more wealthy....
I swear if the devs make this a skill that "only" dmgs other players weapons, I am going to go griefing like there is no tomorrow. I have a lot of frustrations to take out after having CH nerfed into oblivion and now Pistoleer.
Something I find funny though.. what profession (combat oriented) actually gets beneficial perks at master level? Can anyone name one? The CHs have been yelling at the devs for a few weeks now trying to get them to answer the simple question "What perk do we get at Master CH?". Since they nerfed the CL cap tremendously (went from 150 lvls to 70 lvls at master) the old perk of being able to call an additional pet is useless since anyone with half a brain knows that a CL 50 critter will easily kill 3 CL 20-23 critters.
So now lets look at Master Pistoleer. Multitarget shot is just horrendous in its current form, I and most of you, will never use it. Now that they are taking away the one good thing about disarming blast, I am assuming that it will never be as usefull as it once was. Now the jury is still out on how they will change it. They could actually make it a decent skill still but after looking at what disarm shot 1 does, I highly doubt it.
So I'm back to my original question. What combat classes actually get something useful at Master level? I am almost starting to think the devs goal is to get everyone to dabble in at least 4-6 professions.
I have to go to sleep, but I read the test center notes. I can't say I'm surprised, after reading the things I've read lately. I would "hope" we get something to fill in disarming 1 and 2, that make up for the loss, and that we aren't left with vanilla combat specials forever. If we are, yes, most of us that haven't already, will either respec or mix up smuggling or BH to make it interesting again, which is unfortunate.
>Get a clue. First of all, the knockdown HAM costs are being reduced, so don't use HAM costs as an argument. Secondly, you get your ranged knockdown long before Master. Now we don't get a ranged knockdown at all.
You should get a clue. Carbineers don't have high HAM costs just for knockdowns; we have high HAM costs for every special. It always makes me laugh when pistoleers bitch about their HAM costs when carbineers deal with 3x-4x the cost for every single special attack.
The funny thing is that the 30-second knockdown timer will still leave pistoleers on top because they still have the highest DPS output of the three ranged weapon classes. You all complain how carbineers and riflemen have bigger damage weapons and theoretically higher DPS when their speed mods hit the cap, but the reality is that pistoleers still win. Don't believe me? Answer me this: do pistoleers ever bother with normal attacks in PVP or against dangerous mobs? Of course not, they're spamming BS2 over and over. Can carbineers or riflemen spam specials at high speed? Of course not, because we'll incap ourselves in about 10 seconds.
Couple the knockdown timer with the 75% damage reduction in PVP and it means one thing: the winner is not going to be the person who can knockdown first--it's going to be the person who can pump out the most damage in the shortest amount of time. Here's how I see duel between a carbineer and a pistoleer:
Carbineer fires chargeshot1, actionshot1, legshot2, normal, normal, normal, normal, legshot2, normal...
Pistoleer goes down from the knockdown, but thenwhen he gets up it'shealthshot, bs2, bs2, bs2, bs2....
Who's going to win, the guy who can occasionally hit for 1000 in between a handful of 200pt shots or the guy who can hit for 500 consistently?
Buffs also significantly reduce your HAM cost. You never eat/drink? Never use spice? Never met a doctor? Who will do more damage when both players can use specials for every shot? Don't carbineers and rifleman also have the best armor piercing weapons? Or does the armor piercing aspect not work yet in pvp?