Pistoleer Archive
Thread: GCW Revamp: What do Pistoleers want specifically?
NaKitNa
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:55 pm
#66
Randonb wrote:
I think I've added in all of the major points. Factional skills or skill mods are unlikely. Part of that is technical difficulty, and part of it is that if the skills were different for either faction, one would inevitably be percieved as better.
The good news is that this skill mods could be coded into factional equipment, and I put that onto the list.
Ah well ... I know that it may be difficult but if they are not willing to code specials based on faction rank then reallly equipment is going to be it whether schematics or the actual things. I mean I know that things are not easy when trying to code but really if they are looking to generate interest in the factions more things other than items are going to have to be developed. SOE needs to step away from the EQ mindset. Bite the bullet and concentrate on maybe even a handful of specials. I know time constraints. So maybe instead of a distinct special for pistoleers ... aside form equipment, and special that anyone can use, like the Hardened Mind or something along those parameters-perhaps just a simple damage resistance offering 5% resistance to all damage. Perhaps even make it of a low increments and as you go up rank you can get additional increments of it. So afterColonel you could get a "Battle Hardened 4" giving you 20% damage resistance across the board. This would make ranking people a significant foe. Which I think should be appropriate.
ClaudSilverberg
Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:06 pm
#67
I would like, when playing against other players, to have more of a "quick-draw" feel to my character. I think it would be fun to have the ability to duel other players like in old westerns, where the winner would be the one to out-draw the other person.
player1256
Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:16 pm
#68
Ok heres an idea i had what if in stead of buying scematics or pistols that could be better crafted i thought you go to afaction reqruiter or sum guylike thatdo a quest and get the ability to like use fp to determine how fast or how much your pistol hurts.
SoulFury
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:01 am
#69
What about something like the devs are doing with the Jedi PvP ranking system but in regards to each specific Combat Profession. Once you are a Master Pistoleer you can join the "Pistoleer Enclave" Rebel or Imperial and then based on your performance in the GCW and PvP you gain additional speed, accuracy bonus, and skills(?). This is something that could be done for all of Combat professions that would get people to join a side and also give us something to do with our professions after we get the master box.
Wild__Bill
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:34 pm
#70
I like this idea about purchasing additional mods for your skill using FP. This could work for any profession, but you could only by mods for your current profession(s), and the amount you could buy would be based on your faction rank. So maybe at colonel you can buy a max of 15 or 20 points of mods and you can choose which mods to sink your points into. (eg. +10 speed, +5 accuarcy while moving, +5 dodge ) Plus you should have teh ability to give up mods and purchase new ones as needed.
RandomSHO wrote:
I think faction perks woul draw a lot more people into the GCW. heres a few ideas...
limited use or very low decayed SEA's. such as dodge +20, accuracy +20, speed +20. things you can only use when overt, and they last a limited time. but dont make it food. it has to be seperate from food, because those exist already.
factional pistols of course. but make them worth it. the imperial pistols you can buy with FP suck.
factional armor with mods attached. such as a stormtrooper helmet with +10 to dodge and speed.
high end powerups. say 45% to min and max damage. but again, only useable when overt, and only good for like 50 shots.
maybe bonuses as you gain rank other than being able to store more faction points. <--this is my personal crusade.
Say your a private, you get reward.
sergaent would get +5 to dodge
lietenant(sp) would get +10 speed and +10 to dodge
colonel would get +15 to speed and +15 to dodge
I have no idea how that would be implemented though. but I think if you got actual usefull bonuses to faction rank it would bring A LOT more people into the GCW.
even better would be to seperate mission FP and PvP faction points. so you would need to actually PvP to be able to get the bonuses at the rank. so you couldnt just run missions and get the bonuses. you would need a certain amount of PvP faction points as well to get the ranks.
WinterRoseASFR
Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:54 pm
#71
Well... here's a good question isn't it? I'm not factioned, nor have I ever had the intention of being. I'd rather pistoleer fixes not come at the expense of having to declare for PvP one way or the other if that's not what you're interested in doing. I rather like the idea of profession specific missions, where rewards and challenges taillored to our scope and abillities might be met with real rewards we can reach. And to get epic level or master level pistols or armour clothings or state changing damage types or energy types to damage with? Pistoleer, Carbineer and Rifleman master quests like the trials a Jedi has to go through to become a Jedi master. If certs like the DE-10 were only obtainable by pistoleers through realistically doable profession-specific quests, then you'd already have a built in mechanism to cut down on farming the things, and everyone that worked hard enough to achieve the levels of competency where you could quest out and get one actually COULD obtain one without facing a 15 million cred price tag for a weapon they could never get in the first place.
If you REALLY wanted to hook me into PVP as a Pistoleer, something that would make me give up dancing for the skill points and really dive into it, do something like a Teepo Paladin profession specialization somewhere in the Jedi Tree. There's your elite-elite pistoleer class. The Teepo Paladins were pistol-using Jedi that eschewed lightsabers altogether. Essentially it'd be like the jedi-spliced equivalent of Bounty Hunters, who have to master two professions before they can become Bounty Hunters. Only in this case you;d have to master pistoleer and a Jedi type profession. Teepo Paladins come from the old dice an paper games. More information can be found on them here:
http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/rpg/starwars/theforce/starwars_theforce_teepojedi.html
If so much emphasis is going to be put on SWG being turned into 'Jedi Wars' Then here's a little more Jedi diversity you can add into the game, while at the same time encouraging factional play (Jedi or Sith as opposed to Rebellion or Empire). As well, Elite Elite level weapon certs and skills that do damage on a par with jedi types could be introduced later on. Think of the sort of shootist you saw in the movie 'Equilibrium who could do what he does blindfolded with force powers. That's what a Teepo Paladin could be capable of. THERE'S a mo-capping opportunity for you. It's even said that some Teepo used two guns at once.
One problem is that in the way of faction based weapons, most are pretty much already out there that make any sense. The Imps have their 'Stormtrooper 1' which in the regular continuity were stolen in great numbers and named 'Freedom 1's'. There is no canonical basis for the 'republic blaster' as an alliance specific weapon. The weapon is a republic era hold-out blaster made by Merr-Sonn. The Quickfire 2.
There was another disruptor pistol that really high ranking imperials got to have besides the infamous Tenloss DX-2. The Merr-Sonn MSD-32 was commissioned by the imperial bureaucracy and given to its agents until too many of them fell into alliance hands. The imperial Security Bureau tracked down these weapons, the MSD-37 was purged from all company computers, the designers were sent to the Spice Mines, the managers were shot, and the remaining inventory was destroyed. This could also be a Sith Specific Blaster to draw evil pistoleers into the Jedi Conflict.
If you wanted to do a Teepo Paladin specific blaster pistol, I would not hesitate to recommend the Bryar Pistol, used by Kyle Katarrn in the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games. The pistol could include a ranged knockdown effect to reflect the alternate attack seen in the FPS games where you charged up the thing and let fly a really hard shot.
Other weapon variants that most may recognize could be the SoruSuub ELG-3a, which you'll know as the republic blaster with the long barrel that you saw Amidala toting about in Episode 1. (Essentially the prop was made using the barrel of a Barbeque lighter.) You might also include Jango's Westar-34 Pistols if you wanted to provide a faction specific pistol for an underworld faction, like the Hutts or Black Sun. You KNOW the Bounty Hunters would master Pistoleer to be able to double-front a couple of Westars like Jango. There's also the Blas-Tech DT-12, as almost used by Greedo on Han Solo before HAN FRIED HIM FIRST. There's the Naboo S-5 Security Blaster, as seen wielded by Panaka in episode 1, based on the Steyr-Mannlicher .22 cal target pistol. There's also Zam Wesell's KYD-21 Blaster Pistol. Further, there's the Blasters we saw being used by the guards on Cloud City Mining Station on Bespin, and this doesn't even get into all the guns mentioned in the pistol histories link in my signature.
I also go into different types of damage added for different kinds of projectiles out of stuff like Strikers, like Depe Uranium Rounds, White Phosphorus Tracers, Cryoban Cold Shells, Borless Acid rounds. Though I quite like the idea of Smugglers being able to do damage type slices.
A note on needlers: Rathask suggested the possibility of a 'needler' gun that went through armour like a shotgun through kevlar that could deliver state effects with doses of poisons and the like. While it's not poisonous, there is something like a needler in the rpg book guns that could be used. Given more of a writeup in my gun histories thread (URL in the sig), the Verpine Shatter Gun fires a stream of small metallic projectiles suspended in a magnetic field and accelerated to just under the speed of sound. The result is a weapon with a soundless discharge, but a high kinetic punch. Essentially, a handheld railgun crossed with a scatter pistol. Talk about your high kinetic damage potential, or assassin's pistol.
Mostly, if you want to draw me into a faction, aside from the perks, and abilities, and the jedi whizbangs and possible weapon certs, how about you write some story based content that will make me care about one side or the other. Think about it in RP terms. Not 'how you get the biggest gun to frag the other player with' terms. You're running a roleplaying game. You need to present a story that I care about one way or the other. As a dancer/pistoleer, my character could give a damn whether the empire or alliance triumphs over the other.
SHE hopes they both wipe each other the hell out so ordinary people can get on with living their lives and come in to watch her dance for a bit and enjoy themselves. She's been given no convincing reason as to why she should believe one will govern any better than the other. One's repressive and inflexible. The other's flexible but so unrepressed, nothing gets done under its own weight. And both have been shown to be all kinds of corruptible. And then there's this question of a more far reaching battle between good and evil with the re-emerging Sith and Jedi that could be influencing the whole battle between the Alliance and Empire.
Okay gamemaster. There's why my character hasn't declared a faction. Ball's in your court now. Why should Rookery get involved? Blowing up her stuff and giving her a melon, 100 cred, and a green overbearing astromech droid is hardly enough. Provide me a story with hooks that draw me in that I'd bite for. Give me a story that'll reel me in that isn't a barely thought out excuse to do a little bit of PvP. It's not the player's job to provide story hooks for the developers in an MMORPG. (Unless you want to pay me to write for you.) It's quite the reverse if you're trying to provide any kind of compelling experience. You want stuff that'll rope us in? Go talk to the folks at Wizards of the Coast or the folks that have been writing adventures you used as reference material back when the RPG was done by West End Games. We're paying YOU to come up with content. We're not paying for the privelege of doing your work for you. If I have to come up with plot as well, why should I have to install a bug-ridden program on a gig and a half of my hard drive?
Thank you for your time and attention.
If you REALLY wanted to hook me into PVP as a Pistoleer, something that would make me give up dancing for the skill points and really dive into it, do something like a Teepo Paladin profession specialization somewhere in the Jedi Tree. There's your elite-elite pistoleer class. The Teepo Paladins were pistol-using Jedi that eschewed lightsabers altogether. Essentially it'd be like the jedi-spliced equivalent of Bounty Hunters, who have to master two professions before they can become Bounty Hunters. Only in this case you;d have to master pistoleer and a Jedi type profession. Teepo Paladins come from the old dice an paper games. More information can be found on them here:
http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/rpg/starwars/theforce/starwars_theforce_teepojedi.html
If so much emphasis is going to be put on SWG being turned into 'Jedi Wars' Then here's a little more Jedi diversity you can add into the game, while at the same time encouraging factional play (Jedi or Sith as opposed to Rebellion or Empire). As well, Elite Elite level weapon certs and skills that do damage on a par with jedi types could be introduced later on. Think of the sort of shootist you saw in the movie 'Equilibrium who could do what he does blindfolded with force powers. That's what a Teepo Paladin could be capable of. THERE'S a mo-capping opportunity for you. It's even said that some Teepo used two guns at once.
One problem is that in the way of faction based weapons, most are pretty much already out there that make any sense. The Imps have their 'Stormtrooper 1' which in the regular continuity were stolen in great numbers and named 'Freedom 1's'. There is no canonical basis for the 'republic blaster' as an alliance specific weapon. The weapon is a republic era hold-out blaster made by Merr-Sonn. The Quickfire 2.
There was another disruptor pistol that really high ranking imperials got to have besides the infamous Tenloss DX-2. The Merr-Sonn MSD-32 was commissioned by the imperial bureaucracy and given to its agents until too many of them fell into alliance hands. The imperial Security Bureau tracked down these weapons, the MSD-37 was purged from all company computers, the designers were sent to the Spice Mines, the managers were shot, and the remaining inventory was destroyed. This could also be a Sith Specific Blaster to draw evil pistoleers into the Jedi Conflict.
If you wanted to do a Teepo Paladin specific blaster pistol, I would not hesitate to recommend the Bryar Pistol, used by Kyle Katarrn in the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games. The pistol could include a ranged knockdown effect to reflect the alternate attack seen in the FPS games where you charged up the thing and let fly a really hard shot.
Other weapon variants that most may recognize could be the SoruSuub ELG-3a, which you'll know as the republic blaster with the long barrel that you saw Amidala toting about in Episode 1. (Essentially the prop was made using the barrel of a Barbeque lighter.) You might also include Jango's Westar-34 Pistols if you wanted to provide a faction specific pistol for an underworld faction, like the Hutts or Black Sun. You KNOW the Bounty Hunters would master Pistoleer to be able to double-front a couple of Westars like Jango. There's also the Blas-Tech DT-12, as almost used by Greedo on Han Solo before HAN FRIED HIM FIRST. There's the Naboo S-5 Security Blaster, as seen wielded by Panaka in episode 1, based on the Steyr-Mannlicher .22 cal target pistol. There's also Zam Wesell's KYD-21 Blaster Pistol. Further, there's the Blasters we saw being used by the guards on Cloud City Mining Station on Bespin, and this doesn't even get into all the guns mentioned in the pistol histories link in my signature.
I also go into different types of damage added for different kinds of projectiles out of stuff like Strikers, like Depe Uranium Rounds, White Phosphorus Tracers, Cryoban Cold Shells, Borless Acid rounds. Though I quite like the idea of Smugglers being able to do damage type slices.
A note on needlers: Rathask suggested the possibility of a 'needler' gun that went through armour like a shotgun through kevlar that could deliver state effects with doses of poisons and the like. While it's not poisonous, there is something like a needler in the rpg book guns that could be used. Given more of a writeup in my gun histories thread (URL in the sig), the Verpine Shatter Gun fires a stream of small metallic projectiles suspended in a magnetic field and accelerated to just under the speed of sound. The result is a weapon with a soundless discharge, but a high kinetic punch. Essentially, a handheld railgun crossed with a scatter pistol. Talk about your high kinetic damage potential, or assassin's pistol.
Mostly, if you want to draw me into a faction, aside from the perks, and abilities, and the jedi whizbangs and possible weapon certs, how about you write some story based content that will make me care about one side or the other. Think about it in RP terms. Not 'how you get the biggest gun to frag the other player with' terms. You're running a roleplaying game. You need to present a story that I care about one way or the other. As a dancer/pistoleer, my character could give a damn whether the empire or alliance triumphs over the other.
SHE hopes they both wipe each other the hell out so ordinary people can get on with living their lives and come in to watch her dance for a bit and enjoy themselves. She's been given no convincing reason as to why she should believe one will govern any better than the other. One's repressive and inflexible. The other's flexible but so unrepressed, nothing gets done under its own weight. And both have been shown to be all kinds of corruptible. And then there's this question of a more far reaching battle between good and evil with the re-emerging Sith and Jedi that could be influencing the whole battle between the Alliance and Empire.
Okay gamemaster. There's why my character hasn't declared a faction. Ball's in your court now. Why should Rookery get involved? Blowing up her stuff and giving her a melon, 100 cred, and a green overbearing astromech droid is hardly enough. Provide me a story with hooks that draw me in that I'd bite for. Give me a story that'll reel me in that isn't a barely thought out excuse to do a little bit of PvP. It's not the player's job to provide story hooks for the developers in an MMORPG. (Unless you want to pay me to write for you.) It's quite the reverse if you're trying to provide any kind of compelling experience. You want stuff that'll rope us in? Go talk to the folks at Wizards of the Coast or the folks that have been writing adventures you used as reference material back when the RPG was done by West End Games. We're paying YOU to come up with content. We're not paying for the privelege of doing your work for you. If I have to come up with plot as well, why should I have to install a bug-ridden program on a gig and a half of my hard drive?
Thank you for your time and attention.
Naxet
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:26 pm
#72
Just fix the special attacks that are broken.
Now Master Pistoleer Ahazi
Master Rifleman Tempest
and
Yargeau
Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:22 am
#73
Randonb,
"Factional skills or skill mods are unlikely. Part of that is technical difficulty, and part of it is that if the skills were different for either faction, one would inevitably be percieved as better."
I totally agree, that if you make things different per faction that people would end up complaining. The grass is always greener on the other side.
However, that being said, it is still imparitive for there to be incentives to making rank in a faction. Someone can chose a side and still not participate. You need to give people a reason to want to pvp. If not awsome storyline, plot, content.?.?. You can keep the factional perks the same, equal for each side. But, there must be perks, goals, something to draw people in to pvp and the gcw.
zazo
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:12 am
#74
Ok I'm a little late in seeing this I've been on vacation. I didn't read through any of the other posts yet so forgive me if what I put in has been mentioned.
Relating to pistols and the GCW only:
first disarming shot should unequip the opposing players weapon.
duel weild 
reduce the freakin ham costs on all weapons
make the DE-10 medium armor peircing it is after all a master pistoleer weapon
ducking shot! or crouching shot? ok call me crazy but shooting through walls aside we should be able to fire from a covered position. So if your behind a wall the special use steps out from behind the wall fires then moves you back to the previous position. Certainly during your firing you are vulnerable to getting hit but once you duck back behind the object you are covered again.
I think the major detraction for pistoleers in the gcw is there ability to effectivly make a difference and the lack of "role playing manuvers" for lack of a better term. I've been a pistoleer, smuggler, tkm forever pretty much because it adds an element of star warsyness to my experiance. Just the gunslinging Han Solo type of toon. but unlike Han my pistoleer/smuggler is crap in the gcw at the moment. This may be why many people of the pistoleer profession stay out of pvp.
player1256
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:47 am
#75
Zazo wrote:
Ok I'm a little late in seeing this I've been on vacation. I didn't read through any of the other posts yet so forgive me if what I put in has been mentioned.
Relating to pistols and the GCW only:
first disarming shot should unequip the opposing players weapon.
duel weild
reduce the freakin ham costs on all weapons
make the DE-10 medium armor peircing it is after all a master pistoleer weapon
ducking shot! or crouching shot? ok call me crazy but shooting through walls aside we should be able to fire from a covered position. So if your behind a wall the special use steps out from behind the wall fires then moves you back to the previous position. Certainly during your firing you are vulnerable to getting hit but once you duck back behind the object you are covered again.
I think the major detraction for pistoleers in the gcw is there ability to effectivly make a difference and the lack of "role playing manuvers" for lack of a better term. I've been a pistoleer, smuggler, tkm forever pretty much because it adds an element of star warsyness to my experiance. Just the gunslinging Han Solo type of toon. but unlike Han my pistoleer/smuggler is crap in the gcw at the moment. This may be why many people of the pistoleer profession stay out of pvp.
its D-U-A-L not D-U-E-L
AhJahFrolio
Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:37 am
#76
Duel Weild to give us some power or something to just all out improve Pistoleer, we need it!
I agree with everyone who says it is difficult for us to have input on the GCW when our profession in such disarray. We have watched professions andgame bugstake a back seat to Mounts, Vehicles, Player Cities, the Laughable Imperial Crackdown, and now Jedi. Ontop of all this we still get no answer on why this is how it is. I will say that the above additions are welcomed and have improved the game it is still not right on how this is going down.
I think that instead of splitting man hours on GCW and Fixing issues going on 12months old they need to double up on Fixing our issues. This is ridiculous and unnacceptable. If SOE had a clue on how to get things done they would have already doubled their efforts on the areas that make up the core and foundation blocks of this game, NOT putting the bulk of it's efforts into Jedi, and assigning one and two man teams to everything else.
Bounty Hunter and regular destroy missions are still breaking and not finishing and paying out, and some people are worried about GCW. You know it doesn't seem that SOE is very caring about the Galactic Civil War because if they were they wouldn't allow the ranks of Imperials and Rebels to be flooded with Uber Jedi! News Flash the GCW had hardly any Jedi during this time period.
AhJahFrolio
Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:42 am
#77
Sorry, Dual Wield. And I recognise that is not a GCW fix, but if you read my statements above you'll find my answer to that.
Hakai
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:42 pm
#78
how about a speed/damage/accuracy increase when defending the inside of a base? it's logical to think that a defender inside of a tight corridor would be capable of aiming and moving more effectively while in tight quarters while the assault troops (rifles and carbines) would have a small amount of difficulty once they enter close quarters.