Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Focus Thread : Pistoleer Bugs, Issues and Concepts.
Ternque01 wrote:
I know it was mentioned before, and unlikely as it may be to happen, I think that we all need to make sure that roots and snares are not nerfed so that they break upon further damage to your target. Given the short lifespan of roots and the debuff nature of snares, there is no reason why these specials should break upon damage. Doing so would neuter the utility of these specials in combat and only make them useful as "escape specials".
It was mentioned by a developer at Fan Fest, and I feel that nerfing roots like this is a BAD idea.
BadgerSmaker wrote:
I think rumours about roots breakingget confused due to the bug with concussion shot.
DE-10. As others have brought up, perhaps a master cert version with either higher damage or increased range. The difference would be in crafting, with either both pistols requiring only 2 tissues and the master requiring a second loot item ("DE-10 gas amplifier", either make the bullet go farther or make it hit harder with additional gas) or having the master require 3 tissues while the non cert would only require 2. I have yet to even take on the task of gathering the items for a DE-10, so I don't know if that would make it much easier to aquire both/one over the other.
Stopping shot. I agree this is far from a crowd control skill when we can't even control a single enemy with it, let alone the 12 that were clustered together, with our puller being brilliant enough to shoot at one of them. All for an immunity timer with a dramatically reduced cool down. I completely disagree with the statement that stopping shot should be moved to the master box, as that would just leave those grinding out the near 5 million pistol exp and 435k or whatever cexp reletively useless until they got master. I would instead suggest buffing the higher versions/nerfing slightly the basic version, and moving improved to the 4th box of one of our more useless branches, thus requiring any dabblers to get a third branch in order to be effective as a pistoleer dabbler.
Dual wield. YES PLEASE.
I suggest however that it be a skill in the master box thats basicly a toggle for a small amount of initial action cost (the drawing action heh) but no additional drain. The downside of having the skill active would be decreased accuracy (you can't aim nearly as efficiently when you have two weapons going off.) but as a trade off you'd get the added damage from a second pistol. When toggled off, you have regular accuracy (from what I've read, our accuracy isn't quite as good. perhaps an increase so that this is more of a benefit) but only one pistol to fire, thus reduced damage, though not necessarily half, since as others have pointed out accuracy contributes to damage now.Fan/burst/etc aoe shots. I actually think the cone extending beyond our range is realistic (bullets don't just vaporize once they reach a certain distance) though I agree it is far from helpful in any way shape or form as a skill. I suggest a dramatic decrease in hit chance beyond say 20m, since I've always assumed the skill was initially designed to damage multiple targets that were right in front of you and draining your health fast. This way the skill would be useful for that purpose, but would still have an extremely small chance of pulling something a distance away, thus still leaving a very slight drawback towards its use being that its an AoE skill. A possibility to this would be perhaps increased damage (keep in mind like many others, I don't bother to use these skills, so I'm not entirely sure where the damage falls in the spectrum, so correct me if its powerful) so that it would be effective to use in up close mob situations.
The main issue i've found so far is range. A rifleman or carbineer can kite a pistoleer from 36m -80m and be untouchable from the pistoleer.
The first thing I would like to see is stopping shot changed so it can only be done with a pistol and i'd like to see it left as it is. This would give a pistoleer a chance to stay in attacking range against a rifleman or carbineer, this also stops other professions such as rifleman and carbineer picking it up and abusing it. If this change is made then there is no need for a stopping shot change as a pistoleer would still be in saber throw range of a jedi and carbineers/rifleman would still be able to attack back. Also total heal should cause stopping shot to break.
I would also like to see an increase in damage, if stopping shot is nerfed and an increase in defence against attacks from outside of 36m onwards.
I would also like to see the chance of KD on firearm strike increased and a dizzy added to the move. As the move has such a long wind up it really should be more useful and a dizzy added because been whacked across your head is going to make you see birdies.
That is all I can think of so far, will add more as I find it.
Hasun wrote:
Also total heal should cause stopping shot to break.
Hasun wrote:
I'm just trying to come up with a solution which lets us keep stopping shot as it is, because the changes which are been suggested render it useless. It should be able to be used over and over again or how else do groups take down high end content, that can strike for 5k a hit?,
Also stopping shot is the only move that gives us a fighting chance against carbineers or riflemen, it gives us a chance to root and get inrange, rather than be kited. Its riflemen and carbineer abusing a pistoleer skill that is getting it nerfed anyway.
What suggested changes? Stopping shot is staying as is, hopefully with a reduced recovery timer. It is concussion shot that needs to be fixed.
Ahh, oh sorry... yes we want to remove the ability to chain root. That's not the point of the move. It should be used as a tactic, not the be all and and all in Ranged vs Melee PvE and PvP.
I'm not opposed to dabbling either, but nice idea Stopping Shot being exclusive to Pistols.
Hi, I am sure I am going to be flamed, but I just respeced to Pistoleer 0404 for the Token Repsec (last night as of thedae of this post). I previously had Carbiner 0440. The Carbiner/Pistoleer skills were my "roundout" skills; I am a Master Rifleman/Master Bounty Hunter with a little Scount Hunting so I can get decent harvest when a rare MOB resource comes along (you know, one of those 30+ cpu ones pre-CURB).
I switched to Pistoleer 0404 not because it was some FOTM, but because after careful considderation the Pistol abilities worked best for how I play. I like to go prone at 90 meters out, cover, and crawl into range of my target. Conceal Shot is a great special, but normally only 2 or 3 get sent downrange before the Target "discovers" my position. With the all-anoying Warp, Suppression Fire and Crippling shot didnt seem to help keep my target at range.
I like Stopping Shot, it works great. I definately understand the Pistoleer Comunitiy's (which I am technically a part of now, not that a respec is usually welcome) desire to prevent this special from being abused, and therefore from being nerfed. I agree that for Stopping Shot to be the Pistoleer tool for Crowd Control, it would have to be able to fire much more quickly at several targets. To be balanced, there would need to be a resistance to another Root for a time (which I heard there already is, but I've been wrong before) Herearesome thoughts.
1. What if Stopping Shot had a Range limit (I have seen other shots with one, I just cant remember which one it was while I am at work). The low level version has a 25 meter limit, the Improved has about 50 (carbine Range
, and Advaned has no Range Limit.
2. What about another version of Stopping Shot that is AOE/Cone, or make Stopping Shot prgress with a single target, Improved is a narrow Cone, and Advanced is a wider Cone. Combined with 1 above, a Master Pistoleer could Root a large block of opponents to a far Range.
On the idea of restricting Stopping Shot to pistols only, I have yet to use a special in Carbineer or Rifleman that had a weapon restriction. I have done an Advanced Sniper Shot with a Scatter Pistol, and used all my Carbinner abilites with Pistols and Rifles. When I experimented with Full Auto Area, I dont know of too many high end weapons it didn't work with, and they were NOT Carbines. My point is that my limited experience with other professions has not shown me a precedent in the current combat system with another weapon-only special, although someone else may have experienced one.
What about RANGE requirements for specials, instead of a specific weapon restriction. Pistol specials (includung those in Bounty Hunter) - maybe they work upto a range of40 meters, Carbine specials could work at a range of 20-60 meters, and Rifle specials might work from 50-90 meters (with cyber-arms, 85 is the max range I have heard of)
Incidentally, as a Master Rifleman, I do not have a problem with some kind of MINIMUM Range. To me it made sense (kinda) the way it was before CURB, where a Pisol was most accurate at its 25 and less range, with accurace dropping off after 25 meters - a Rifle worked great at the distance but was not that acurate at Close range. Carbines should be somewhere in between.
Post CURB, Carbines and Pistols have the hard-cap at their Max range, so why shouldn't there be a hard-cap for minimum range too? Maybe Pistols would have5m Min Cap. (which I think is Melee range), Carbines get a 15m mincap and Rifles have a 25m mincap. Carbines kinda bridge the gap, but Rifle and Pistol never cross. This isnt a change in tune to what I was saying above about specials having ranges - the specials can be used with any weapon but they only work on a target within the specifed range. So if a Rifleman hits a Rancor at85 meters and the Rancor starts rushing towards him, the Rifleman could use any of his Pistoleer skills on the angry target without changing weapons once the Rancor is between 40 and 25 meters - hopefully being successful at rooting so he can run back into Rifle-special range. If the Rancor closes within 25 meters, the Rifleman would have to change to a close range weapon, and would not have access to his power shots.
Apologies firstly if any of these points have been mentioned already (its a lot to scan through...)
Disarming Shot
This has the potential to be a really useful method of controlling a fight in terms of preventing damage, but at present, why bother? By the time you're pulling your next attack the disarmed modifier is wearing off.
This really needs to have the duration of effectdoubled (if not tripled). Great option for crowd control purposes but currently not implemented well enough to be of any use.
Dodge
As a follow up to all the remarks on the defensive ability (or lack of) of pistoleers, bring back the dodge modifiers in some way!
I can follow how a rifleman might have a more realistic option of blocking melee attacks using a rifle as a baton, but surely the fleet of foot role envisioned in the CU of a pistoleer should be reflected by a significant advantage in both movement penalty mitigation and evasion against ranged attacks?
Pistol Speed
I'll cast my vote behind this element of the topic too. I'm a Master Marksman, Master Pistoleer, Master Bounty Hunter with 0030 in Carbineer and feel qualified as such to accurately state that in theory examination of weapon stats reveal very little difference between the weapons classes in general... And in practise (acutely between Pistols and Carbines) there is almost no discernable difference in timings.
I realise that with a less proficient skill template the speed differences may be more obvious, but from an 'elite' perspective the modifiers add up to effectively negate any such variations so much so that it is quite rare I'll use a pistol and instead opt for the better range and damage capabilities of a good Carbine.