Pistoleer Archive

Zerona,

I think you saw my post about roll/kip shot. I have not tested them personally, I suppose I should do a quick check just to make sure we don't go off the deep end about it, but the conclusions are indeed depressing.

Quote:

Q. Which pistol tree should I go up first?
A. Stances and Grips:
Why? With dodge broken, BS3 broken, I’d say NOT tactics. Once fixed, I’d probably change first to raise as tactics. Targeted health shots generally kill a mob faster. Accuracy was never an issue before, but might be now, however, using stances in PvE can often overcome accuracy issues, so marksman on the back burner as well. That leaves stances/grips. This line gives good (but as of yet not functioning) defense modifiers, and your bread and butter random HAM damage specials attacks. The pistol special abilities line can be raised independent since it’s combat XP, and is probably overall, one of the best pistol lines to raise.

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Maybe I'm just not understand this right.

Gripes is the line with the broken dodge and BS3, but thats the line we should go up?

Techniques is the line with defense mods,and with disarming and stopping shots.

So did you mean in the pistol xp skills to go up Techniques first along with the combat xp Stances line?

Starlord, ya got itthe other way aroundmate.

Stances and Grips gives ya Disarming Shot 1, Double Tap, Stopping Shot, Fan Shot and some defensive mods. This is indeed the best pistoleer line to raise in first.

Tactics gives ya Dodge and BS3.

Marksmanship is the line with the accuracy mods.

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Zerona wrote:

Jaegen,

After quite some time testing it against creatures and lairs, I see no reason to doubt the specs on KipUp Shot and RollShot (namely 2.5 or maybe 2.8 damage and 1.55/1.5 speed). I've gotten the same damage range as I had with DoubleTap with speeds faster than BS2. Even if you assume the damage multiple is lower than DoubleTap (say 2.5), you still have a DPS that is closer to PBS2. The HAM costs for KipUp are close to DoubleTap as well, with RollShot being significantly higher. I only use it for lair damage, but I can rip through Dantooinefaction bases like nothing.

If you have an opportunity to retest with that same weapon, I would love to see how your more scientific approach would lay out the numbers. I've already been disappointed by our random HAM damage, but assuming you have have reasonable HAM control and the position restrictions aren't a problem, these appear to be superior to FanShot from a damage perspective.

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I recently got double tap, but still use kip-up for lairs. While I have not done specific testing, but it seems my damage numbers are alwys higher with kip-up shot on lairs. I did not account for any speed differences though they don't seem to differ that much.

Now that is weird then, cause looking atmy skills window/pistoleer, it doesnt evenshow a "tactics" tree for me.

I have gripes= dodge and BS3

marksmanship=accuracy

techniques=disarming shot and defense vs dizzy/stun/etc...

stances=combat xp

But as long as I'm heading up the right skill tree

Was gonna do gripes to get BS3 till I read here that its broken, then I thought techniques for the defense and stopping shot.

Thanks for the info, even if the names are diff on my list I'm getting the right skills

Starlord, you may be correct. Im looking at 3 different character builders and they all have different names for all our 4 lines

Will have to remember to check when I get home... but yes, the main thing, is that ya going in the right path

Amazing Info, thanks Jaegen

Is there a cap on accuracy like there is on speed?

Also does dodge work in pvp? i dont seem 2 dodge much

So I know speed is capped at 1.0 on a gun. With all the pistloeer speed bonus. say +50 for example. How does that work? Would a gun with 2.0 spd and te +50 actually shoot at 1.0? Just curious how much the speed bonuses help out on a gun. Thanks.

speed bonus....every +10 to pistol speed = -0.1 from pistol speed. so a +50 from your 2.0 = 1.5

-d

Wrong, dee. That's not how speed works. Refer to the equation in the FAQ for more info.

>>weaponspeed * specialdelaymod * speedmod / 100

Nope. Close, though. Weapon Speed * Special Delay Modifier * (1 - Speed Mod / 100)

>>Second, you're wrong in your math. The data suggests conclusively that the formula as posted is correct. The reason for this is that the experience of speedmod as it approaches 100 is that the weapon will get to 1 second speeds. For this reason, it has to be subtractive.

Riflemen would disagree strongly with you. I disagree, as well -- I have right around +50 speed skills, I use a 1.4 speed DX2, and body shot 2 fires for me just slightly better than every 1.5 seconds (in long fights, you see the difference) ... that follows far better with Jaegen's formula, which says my speed is around 1.35 (1.5 * 1.8 * (1-50/100) = 1.35) than if it were simply subtractive, which would say my speed was 2.2. (1.5 * 1.8 - 0.5 = 2.2). Jaegen has it correct, as I see it.

I am posting to clarify a few issues that many people have brought up above:

First off, the Big Patch changed the titles of the skill trees for not only Pistoleer, but many professions. What is now called the TECHNIQUES LINE used to be the STANCES AND GRIPS LINE. So it is the Techniques line that now gives you all the fancy shots all the way up to Fan Shot. It is the Grips line that now gives you Body Shot 3 and the Dodge bonuses.

Secondly, it seems many people think that formula is either confusiing, or simply more complicated than it needs to be. I agree, that although it is correct, there is a much simpler (IMHO) way of calcualting the results to yeild the exact same solution. It is very simple really, your speed modifier is simply the percentage that you shoot any particular shot faster than its base speed. Very simple, yet that long drawn out formula has you input the weapon speed and shot modifier twice, which is completely unecessary. A couple people above suggested another way to represent the formula above, but unfortuneatly they didn't quite show it correctly. The correct way is as follows:

As you know any particluar shots base speed = (weapon speed * shot modifier)

Now if you have a speed skill modifier of say +74, that means you will shoot any particular shot 74% faster than its base speed. Therefore, if you want to know what the resulting speed of the shot, it will be 100% - 74% = 26% of its base speed. So, IMHO, a much simpler way to express that long drawn out formula previously proposed would be as follows:

Actual Shot Speed = (Weapond Speed * Shot Modifier) * (100 - Speed Skill)

Of Course, the minimum shot speed of 1.0 Seconds still remains in effect. The above formula will yeild the exact same results as the previuosly published formual every time, it isjust a simpler way to look at it, IMO of course.