Pistoleer Archive

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GarronDarkweaver wrote:

Recovery moves require action to execute. If stun stops action regen and u apply it just as someone empties their action they will never be able to attack again untill it wears off or they find a doctor. That would TOTALLY un-balance pvp. And not every template has the ability to recover it. Cm/bh is very popular at the moment and they cant recover from it at all.

50% action regen reduction is too high in my opinion, 25% would be sufficient enough to make it worth appying and healing but not essential to heal if you dont posess the ability to do so.

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I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but in a skill-based game, we ALL mack choices on what skills we want and don't want. Will EVERY opponent you run across have the state recovery skill - No. Will every opponent you run across not have it -also No. Not every profession will have a Stun Move, and not every profession will have a Stun Recovery. This forces the Player to CHOOSE. Do you want Stun Recovery? Do you want a Stun Move?

Using the argument thateveryone will HAVE to get Stun Recovery to survie in PvP, at least to me, seems silly. Lots of opponents will have it, andStun will be ineffective against them. Not every opponent will chose to have it, so Stun Moves will be very effective aginst those people.

Now on the issue of having Stun Recovery, getting hit with a Stun when you are low on Action (Action management is now part of the game), and not being able to use the ability becasue you dont have enough Action, and won't get it while stunned......the solution is simple. Change Stun Recovery to use Mind instead of Action. I don't think I've noticed any Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer abilitiesuseMind anymore in combat, and I didn't notice any moves on BH that drew Mind. In fact, make ALL RECOVERY SKILLS USE MIND. Then, make one of the State effects (maybe Dizzy) stop Mind Regeneration like Stun stops Action.

What you would end up with is someone getting hit with Stun, using Stun Recovery andexpending some Mind. Someone else slaps on another state effect, and another Recovery is used, using up more mind. The Player actually has to MANAGE both Action and Mind pools, becasue a Stun/Dizzy would stop all regen on those pools. So to survive in PvP, you will actually have to FEAR STATES. You get hit with a Stun, you better run away a bit and get out of range before you Recover or you risk getting hit with another state. Making someone NOTruntowards you is Crowd Control.

So give Stun a timer and have it stop all Action Regen. Give another State the ability to halt Mind Regen (if there already isn't one) and it is on a timer. Set all Recevery Skills to use Mind. Thesemay be the ONLY skills in a template that use Mind. More powerful Shots have longer timers. Watch your Action and Mind bars, and don't put yourself in a vulnerable position by using up an entire pool.

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Darth_Spike wrote:

Change Stun Recovery to use Mind instead of Action. I don't think I've noticed any Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer abilitiesuseMind anymore in combat, and I didn't notice any moves on BH that drew Mind. In fact, make ALL RECOVERY SKILLS USE MIND. Then, make one of the State effects (maybe Dizzy) stop Mind Regeneration like Stun stops Action.

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Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 06-30-2005 05:24 PM

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

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Darth_Spike wrote:

Change Stun Recovery to use Mind instead of Action. I don't think I've noticed any Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer abilitiesuseMind anymore in combat, and I didn't notice any moves on BH that drew Mind. In fact, make ALL RECOVERY SKILLS USE MIND. Then, make one of the State effects (maybe Dizzy) stop Mind Regeneration like Stun stops Action.

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Nah, Doc state heal uses mind... should be action really.

Mind is the key thing for elite medics, CM's and Doc would be slaughtered if you had it stop mind regen.

Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 06-30-2005 05:24 PM

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

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Nifty wrote:

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GarronDarkweaver wrote:

Recovery moves require action to execute. If stun stops action regen and u apply it just as someone empties their action they will never be able to attack again untill it wears off or they find a doctor. That would TOTALLY un-balance pvp. And not every template has the ability to recover it. Cm/bh is very popular at the moment and they cant recover from it at all.

50% action regen reduction is too high in my opinion, 25% would be sufficient enough to make it worth appying and healing but not essential to heal if you dont posess the ability to do so.

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umm, Stun does wear off on its own. It is not a permanent effect.

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The thing is, it tends to be. NPC's spam it like crazy, so would Pistoleers, Pikeman, BH and Jedi if it completely stopped regen.

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that could be fixed with the immunity timer that seems to becoming so popular with the devs.

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Orima wrote:

The devs need to look at the roles of all the normal states..

but in a nut shell imo

Dizzy = less defense

Blind = less accuracy

and

Stun = less speed. which translates to less dmg output.

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Now that makes sense to me I take it you just mean weapon speed?

Just as a crazy idea... Stun = Target completely unable to do anything for about 2seconds (including move, attack, regen, heal etc etc). Guess this would be open to a lot of abuse though and thinking about it would give riflemen dabblers an I Win button unless you stuck it on Master Pistols. Give it a longish warm-up and cool down though and it might not be too overpowered.

A few guildies and I did a couple of Corvette runns after pub 19, you are basically in a continual state of stun from the NPC's that spam burst shot.

Other dungeons have similar Burst happy NPC's so bearing that in mind, we have to come up for realistic ideas, especially as in a fight Pistoleers and PIkeman can pretty much keep a target stunned for the entire duration.

Combat Speed Reduction might be a good idea, but may be pretty horrific when combined with CM Thyroid Rupture.

It seems only Intimidate works properly at the moment... anyway, my model would be as follows then:

Intimidate: reduce damage 20%
Stun : reduce damage by 10%and defense by 15%

I have also asked Gunman21, the PIkeman correspondant what he thinks should happen as Pikemen are pretty much the melee version of Pistoleers where Attack Control is concerned.

Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 07-01-2005 03:48 PM

Message Edited by Nifty on 07-01-2005 11:28 AM

Thanks for digging that up Nifty,

Blixtev confirmed for me that Stun does -10 to accuracy and defence.

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

A few guildies and I did a couple of Corvette runns after pub 19, you are basically in a continual state of stun from the NPC's that spam burst shot.

Other dungeons have similar Burst happy NPC's so bearing that in mind, we have to come up for realistic ideas, especially as in a fight Pistoleers and PIkeman can pretty much keep a target stunned for the entire duration.

Combat Speed Reduction might be a good idea, but may be pretty horrific when combined with CM Thyroid Rupture.

This is what the state effects do now:

Intimidate: reduce opponent damage output by 20%
Stun : reduce accuracy and defense (-10)

Dizzy: reduce accuracy and defense by ?
Blind: greatly reduce accuracy by 20%?

So maybe the realistic option is 10% accuracy and defence reduction? That way we get the ability to reduce attack by 30% and defence by %10, then further reduce defence with warning shot's -80 mod.

I need to find more data on Dizzy and Blind. Will update this post when I find it.

It seems only Intimidate works properly at the moment... anyway, my model would be as follows then:

Intimidate: reduce damage 20%
Stun : reduce damage by 10%and defense by 15%

Dizzy: reduce accuracy by 10% and defense by 15%
Blind: reduce accuracy by 20%

So when you are blind/stun/intimidated/dizzy you get

30% to damage reduction

30% to defence reduction

30% to accuracy reduction

That would be pretty nasty and well worth healing/recovering.

I have also asked Gunman21, the PIkeman correspondant what he thinks should happen as Pikemen are pretty much the melee version of Pistoleers where Attack Control is concerned.

Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 07-01-200503:48 PM

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Pug wrote:
I like the 30% damage/defense/accuracy reduction idea. However, I'd like to see the states last longer OR have the advanced/improved versions of the specials have a big increase in their chance to stick the state.

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I saw a comment on the Bounty Hunter forums that made me laugh. This is extremely silly, but fun to think about if it was implemented.

Blind - Makes your screen go black and then fades-to-normal over5 seconds.

Dizzy - Makes your screen shake and then stabilizes-to-normal over 5 seconds.

Stun- Makes your screen freeze and then speeds-up-to-normal over 5 seconds.

This would be on top of their other states. This would DEFINTELY make State Recovery worth while.

all these ideas are good, but like some ppl are stating: If they add a stop all regen, it will force jedis to go healer 0004. And Im not feeling that. A solution to this would be to add state recoveries on the paddy box or Knight box. Make healer 0004 heal stuff like snares, roots, or a counter toCM debuffs, ect. Something that some1 want but is not required. just my 2 cents

Message Edited by Serenloth on 07-12-2005 07:57 PM

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