Pistoleer Archive

Well Jaegen, what you say makes sense. Because if KD2 did have knockdown, the HAM cost would probably be about 500 now

But that may just end up tweaking bugs to fit within the retardedness of a nerf, ya know? At the very least the descriptions should be updated.

On another note, I would be wary of including PBA2 and MTS with BS3 as a bug, at least when talking to programmers. BS3 works as described, it's just kind of lame. PBA2 and MTS do NOT work as described, making them more appropriately 'bugs'.

I would avoid putting"BH vs pistoleer" on the list for the specific purpose of keeping us getting flamed as a class.

Easy,

BS3: Outperformed by the far less expensive, body shot2 that's achieved in the marksman line. It's the only targeted HAM pool special line that pistoleers get.

I think my current description matches your suggestion.

I don't see pistol melee defense 2 name change making it, however, with all of these issues, I'll start a new thread, "General Pistoleer Issues" that is NOT what we send to the devs. We can then add to this list EVERYTHING we come accross, and then strike the fixed ones off, and submit those we feel need to be looked at first. That way we don't lose anything. Good suggestion.

Oh, yeah. Don't forget to add that even though most of us have the "Republic Blaster" certification showing up in our abilities now, that we still can not equip them.

BH vs Pistoleer is the biggest gripe for me, though. We should be at least as powerful with a pistol, if not more powerful, because we specialize in that weapon. Jack of all combat skills shouldn't be the master of all combat skills...

Multi-target pistol shot still does not work nor did it in beta even...

This is probably priority #1 imho i mean it's our master style and should be very good and effective. Also in beta and first of beta i believe this style was meant to also have 0 ham cost and meant to be a "free" style becuase of the 0 ham cost... might wanna ask about all that.

Oh, and Jaegen, everything that looks like a more or less legitimate bug, I recommend sending to the devs. Even if it's just as an appendix attached to the "big five" or something.

For my $13 I'm expecting them to fix more than just five bugs this month.

Jaegen, can't you combine dodge and defense together? Dodge is a form of defense. And I'd personally like to see something mentioned about our accuracy. I do believe we should have a bump up, I really hate to say it like this but it's a thought that came up regarding why BH are more accurate and faster then us. I made a post about it but can't find it now, but in short, I can understand why BH are faster, it will actually make sence. the example I used was I can see a BH getting up in the morning, walking to the mirror, and pulling out his imaginary gun at hisreflection in the mirror. I can see that they work on the speed, the fast draw. But accuracy never comes with speed in that manor. I can seea MP sitting at the bar boasting about his 40m, right between the eye's, shot during a hurricane. I Can Not see a BH doing both though which is why I beleive that our accuracy should get a bump up over their's. Please, I am NOT saying to nerf the BH, As it stands now, their pistol line is the only functional part of their profession and I do not want to see them get hurt in that area as well, I would just like it if the dev's would consider this and give us a bump in accuracy because MP should be more accurate.Again, Please, I am not asking for a BH/MP war, If I'm wrong with my examples, please let me know but don't start a war on this forum over this, please.

I don't see how an accuracy modifier of 100 is all that much better than one of 80...isn't the highest negative modifier 50?

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Iebo wrote:
I don't see how an accuracy modifier of 100 is all that much better than one of 80...isn't the highest negative modifier 50?

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I don't know what the highest negative modifier is, actually, I don't think anyone knows. I can stand still at a certain distance from my target and have -50, I can kneel and have -50, I'm suppose to be more accurate kneeling so it should have gone down but hasn't. I go prone and it might go down to -45 or -48. It depends. If I stand the same distance and run, it stay's at -50. So I honestly think that there is actually more then -50, just the system will only give us the 50 count instead of the full number. But like I said, I don't think anyone knows for sure, and as it is, one person here (and myself as soon as soon as I can get the other 75k of pistol exp) will test to see how much accuracy play's into the game. But that still doesn't take into account what I was commenting on.

Edit. I just reread this and not sure if I'm making sence, if I do not, please let me know and I'll try to write it in another way, LOL.

i noticed u said that the ppl couldn't attack after being knocked down. i have found this not to be true. i jsut got pistol whip and it seems to be working fine. except for the fact that i do more damage to myself then the target.

Weaponmaster,

Read the sticky test. EACH time you knockdown, it stacks. You need to knockdown multiple times in succession to see it. I did it againlast night on a tortur bull. 6 knockdowns, then I used rifle to kill him, he never attacked.

Oh, another tortur hit me later for 800 damage and killed me, so it wasn't a perfected technique by any stretch

Bolanos,

I don't see any evidence of the master pistoleer profession needing "a bump up" at this time. I don't know how anyone could know this right now. As it is, I think pistoleers do have higher accuracy standing, moving, and aiming than a BH. BHs have better prone/kneeling accuracy. Seems there is some variety, which is a good thing IMO. I do enjoy your enthusiasm and creativity, I just don't think asking for a power boost is justified right now. I liked your comments on dual wielding too, fun to read regardless of if it translates to in-game or not. You know my view, I'd rather have seen BHs use their own unique line of weapons and skill mods, and retain their accuracy/speed, overall combat prowess, etc. That would have solved a few issues (and possibly caused a lot more??). But the current state of the game is that bounty hunter is indeed a way to become a very effective pistol user. Even the description in the bounty hunter pistol line gives the indication that they are, in their own right, a gunslinger quote: "speed and accuracy akin to a true gunslinger", and that's only at BH pistol 3, they still get BH 4 and Master BH to stack on that.

Jaegen - have you looked at all of the other class's submissions and the dev responses that have been made so far? Some of them are WAY more than 5 items. They do things like:

1) Bugs
A) blah blah
B) blah blah
C) blah blah
D) blah blah

and then 4 more "items".

So if we want to fit more in we could easily do something like that - combine everything to do with our abilities into one. Combine anything that's a bug into another, and stick any feature requests in a third.

OK, speak now or hold your peace until next month. I've included disarming suggestions if they don't go for renaming, updated #5 with a more critical issue (broken special), reworded a few things, added republic blaster and royal blaster "quick question"

Remember, this is just the top issues. In fact, thedesigners already commented on #3 and #4, but everyone wants them to remain as an issue. At least they geta suggestion and relevant test data with this updated to the dodge question, that's at least something new. If we had something really important to put there, I suppose we would.

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Pistoleer Community Issues 8/16/2003

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1. Disarming Shot 1 and Disarming Shot 2 issues
2. Body Shot 3 - not effective as body shot 2(which is a marksman special)
3. Dodge not working?
4. General defensive modifiers working?
5. Multi-target pistol shot and Point blank area 2 not fully functional
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Quick question:
Can you tell us anything about the republic blaster and the royal blaster certifications or are they "relics" for display?

Details:

1. Disarming Shot 1 and Disarming Shot 2 issues

Both specials are currently unique and effective for pistoleers.
Disarming Shot 2 is an AOE knockdown, which goes well with Multi Target Pistol Shot, and is a master level skill
Disarming Shot 1 is a lowest tier special that according to my tests, does LESS than normal non-special attacks (!)
However, vs a LAIR, this special does double damage, making it the single best special to use vs lairs (slightly higher than fan blast, or very close in any case)

SUGGESTION:
Rename Disarming Shot 2 and Disarming Shot 1 to appropriate names, leaving the specials as is.
(Lair Shot or Structure shot for disarming shot 1, Area Blast for disarming 2, as maybe poor examples
Folks seem comfortable with those specials as they are, have based their profession around the mastery level one.
Regarding the potential change to make disarming shots doing damage to a weapon:
Most are giving feedback that they think it's a griefing special that they neither would like to use, or have used on them, creating far too much combat downtime as a result of a single special ability.
Being the profession that "destroys your equipment" doesn't seem to hold much appeal. If a change is made regardless, we suggest the specials stop an opponent from attacking in some way other than destroying the weapon, such as adding a delay to opponent's next attack(s), a short duration intimidate effect, etc.

2. BODY SHOT 3 - not as effective as body shot 2 (Which is a marksman special)

Outperformed by the far less expensive, body shot2 that's achieved in the marksman line. It's the only targeted HAM pool special line that pistoleers get.

Multiple tests all showed the same results: (+74 pistol speed, 4.0 speed, 17-35 damage CDEF on unarmored, same opponent, using stop watch, 11 shots for delay test, over 50 for damage average:
Example:
BS2 = 80.4 avg dmg per shot. 1.8s avg delay = 43.8 dmg per second.
BS3 = 97.8 avg dmg per shot 2.5s avg delay = 39.0 dmg per second

SUGGESTION:
We suggest an increase in damage modifier, keeping the delay the same, so that it outperforms the far easier to get body shot 2 that is not even part of the pistoleer line.
A special effect added to it would be nice, since we have no state effects, but the main concern is the damage increase.
With no AR2 weaponry and with health damage being easily healed using stims, it's important that our only targeted damage shot be effective.

3. DODGE does not seem to work at all vs average opponents

Tests with +30 dodge (master pistoleer) in a duel vs a player with a +40 acc/+20 speed (non-pistoleer using marksman pistol only). Over 200 attacks, 0 dodges. Also ran smaller test vs unarmed attack, with pistol out, with pistol firing and kneeling, using Body Shot 2 rather than normal attack, all of which had 0 dodges.
I have noticed a very, very few dodges vs mobs and vs completely untrained players. There is no need to "dodge" an untrained attack.

SUGGESTION:
Find a balance such that the maximum dodge allows dodging some portion of attacks in an average duration fight.
Take into account skill stacking, which may or may not require diminishing returns, a cap, or some other method of balance.
Skill mixing should of course offer benefits, but we've seen cases where it can lead to imbalance.
We assume the same goes for the other defense, although we have not tested those (block, counter attack)
Actually, any explanation on how defenses are supposed to work could help guide is in our testing and in making better suggestions, we're guessing here.

4. Defense vs Knockdown (stun/posture change, etc.) seems to have little/no effect.

5. Multi-target pistol shot and Point Blank Area 2 not fully functional

Multi-target pistol shot is either not straightforward in how you use it, or it only works sporadically.
Testing it I found it hard to get it to fire, but when it did, the damage/DPS "seemed" appropriate.

Point Blank Area 2 only seems to be hitting one target and not multiple targets.

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Thank you for reviewing the community issues, we look forward to the next round of feedback.

Jaegen88 - on behalf of the pistoleer community

It'd be nice if there was room for the Republican Blaster certification in there somewhere. Something they could fix easy I assume...