Pistoleer Archive

Fan Shot is by far the most used shot I have as Pistoleer/Expert BH.

Stopping Shot is nice for single targets.

Eye Shot is too EASILY countered. Wear a helmet!

Torso Shot is nice for the flame dmg. I only use it as part of my bleed macro generally.

I agree the Smuggler shots are very nice, but they have to dabble in Pistoleer or BHfor them to be effective.

Biggestreason I had for getting Expert BH was an extra 50/50 speed/accuracy. Eye Shot and Torso Shot were nice bonuses though. Oh, also the Scatter Pistol.

Wear a helmet!! im a bh expert and pistoleer(almost master)

ok that workls on guns except tangle but every one says tangle is nothing to worry about but mine is

Tangle

221 damage after slice and 2.9 speed it the best weapon i can use when i play some one i know is a millionare with there 80% armor with heat and acid specials.

i also have a 370- dam scatter but the armor is tomutch for it

and as a bh pistoleer i cant dream of beating a smuggleer pitoleer with that kd and stun shots

Tehk X'or

BH 0-0-4-0

Pistoleer 0-4-4-4

Wepps tends to exaggerate, but it is possible he would be doing 30-40 dmg per shot in PvP with eyeshot. The last time he posted stats on his scatter, they were not very good. And he doesn't PvP much, in fact trying to get BH's pulled out of the GCW all together. But there is armor out there, that can make pretty much ruin anyones day...

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rcarter/

I don't have a pic of a helm like this, but a friend in my PA has a 98% resists legit composite helm. They are capping the final resists to be 90% on TC right now, but that is not live yet. So my scatter with AP1 that does 161-429, one of the best on my server, did not do crap when trying to eyeshot him. In fact, I ran out of action long before I made a dent in him. I would have broken my gun before killing him, because I was doing a total of FIVE dmg to him. Usually I hit wookies for about 400dmg with eyeshot...every second.

Now, I agree your profession does need some attention. We all do. But the one thing you've got to remember, is that the Pistoleer profession wasn't intended to make you all that powerful. Smugglers, without your skills, or a BH's, aren't very good. Commando and BH, two hybrid professions, are about the only real ones that can be very powerful just on their own, with a couple exceptions. TKA of course is very powerful, but that comes at the penalty of no range. Rifleman can be powerful, but only in certain situations, and with many downsides. Carbineers have a shot or two that are good, but they also are probably worse off than you guys.

Honestly, and I know you guys have heard it all before, but the game was designed for dabbling. The power you have is not in the 92pts to get to Master Pistoleer, it's in combining the rest of your points to get better. I know you guys want more speed for stopping shot, but I've seen other people post that they got the rest of the needed speed from skill tapes. I don't pretend to know everything about your profession, but that's why most of you claim to take up BH pistol. For the speed. Well, there are other options, eyeshot got a side effect nerf from entertainer buffs, and is about to get it again from mind healing.

Again, you guys should be viable on your own. But for 92pts, how much do you really expect? What are you doing with the rest of your 158pts, and still having problems in PvP? Perhaps you aren't using an effective combo, or don't have them in skills that help you in combat. The game is at the point where all the kids are figuring out the pvp templates, and make characters purely for PvP. If you expect to beat them on a regular basis without doing the same, you are sadly mistaken.

Samra, you already know I agree with you on a lot of stuff. And I'm sure you're aware that I get flamed quite a bit in the BH forums when I tell them they just suck if they think they aren't powerful enough.

Yeah, Wepps exaggerates a lot. I run around with a 71% composite helm. I don't worry too much about eyeshot, especially if one of my favorite dancers is around, because buffs are my friend. I think he mentioned the stats on his scatter, with a max dmg of around 250. The weaponsmith in my PA makes them at close to 190max with just the advanced parts, no tissue.

I guess the only thing I don't really agree with, and this has always been the main issue with BH's, is this:

Master BH takes 217 points, but gets skills in Carbine, Pistol, and Heavy Weapons (LLC). That means I'd expect a Master BH to be 79% as powerful as a Master Pistoleer (92 points), 79% as powerful as a Master Carbineer (92 points), PLUS 46% as powerful as a Master Commando, at the same time. That's a lot of power, but it's balanced.

I understand the logic behind it, I just don't agree with it. I mean, I'd assume that you'd expect a Pistoleer and Carbineer who both spent 92pts on their professions, to be relatively equal as far as effectiveness and balance. A commando would fall prey to your logic also. They have only four skill point boxes invested in any weapon. So by that logic, any other profession in this game should be wiping the floor with them at any given time. Many of their points are spent to master Marksman. They have to lvl carbine, rifle, and pistol, and the launcher pistol they get has to be used with marksman specials unless they go into smuggler or pistoleer, because they don't get any specials or mods for it. Then of course, there's the issue that they require brawler also that's not every built upon again, unless they choose to go up TKA or something.

If you make me only as powerful as the skill points spent in the specific weapon, then you've entirely negated the whole class. I'd be less powerful than a Pistoleer in all cases...every last one. Sure, I'd get the ability to use a carbine, but I'd suck with it, not being even able to stand up to a Master Carbineer. Yet, you should be roughly equal to a carbineer. I'd have my LLC, which I've only spent 4 skill boxes on. Why does nobody complain about the fact that with 14 actual points invested into LLC, I get a weapon that does more damage than anything but commandos? By your logic, I shouldn't be balanced with a novice marksman with Rifle four and nothing else.

The requirements to get certain skills in this game, whether directly related or not, do have an impact on the skills you can access in the future. As an expert BH, you give up 174pts to obtain that. Now while I only have 8 skill boxes that specifically say "pistol", you just can't balance the classes like that. I'm not saying they are perfect, or even right, as they stand now. But if you go by what you said above, you might as well just trash my class completely, because it would be worthless. I know some of the people on the forums would love nothing more, but I know that most of you don't want that.

Just think about that for a bit Samra, because I think that's where a lot of the problem lies. I don't even understand where you got the 79% from to be honest. But if you made a BH be less powerful than the ones it draws from/on, and those respective classes are supposed to be relatively balanced to eachother, you've just neutered me almost completely, and I have 33 skill points to try and even it out. Not very likely...

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Shadow2k wrote:

Samra, you already know I agree with you on a lot of stuff. And I'm sure you're aware that I get flamed quite a bit in the BH forums when I tell them they just suck if they think they aren't powerful enough.

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Shadow2k wrote:

I guess the only thing I don't really agree with, and this has always been the main issue with BH's, is this:

Master BH takes 217 points, but gets skills in Carbine, Pistol, and Heavy Weapons (LLC). That means I'd expect a Master BH to be 79% as powerful as a Master Pistoleer (92 points), 79% as powerful as a Master Carbineer (92 points), PLUS 46% as powerful as a Master Commando, at the same time. That's a lot of power, but it's balanced.

I understand the logic behind it, I just don't agree with it. I mean, I'd assume that you'd expect a Pistoleer and Carbineer who both spent 92pts on their professions, to be relatively equal as far as effectiveness and balance. A commando would fall prey to your logic also. They have only four skill point boxes invested in any weapon. So by that logic, any other profession in this game should be wiping the floor with them at any given time.

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Actually, I don't agree with you on this point. The advantage of Bounty Hunter and Commando is precisely that -- they have skills in a wide variety of weapons. I think that if this game was completely fixed and working right, a BH or Commando wouldn't just rely on a single weapon in PvP. Instead of running around with a Flamethrower 24/7, the Commando could use the Acid Rifle from long range and then switch to the Flamethrower. Instead of just spamming EyeShot, a BH could knock down the enemy with the Carbine and then switch to LLC for damage.

The advantage of a master of MANY weapons instead of one single weapon would be that his diverse training would allow him to choose a weapon that could take advantage of the weaknesses of the other player's specialization. If every weapon in the game had significant advantages AND disadvantages, the skilled BH or Commando could gain all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages of each weapon by being smart about switching between them. Another advantage might be that each specialty combat class might have a specific role to play in a group -- one debuffs, one is crowd control, etc -- and only a class like BH or Commando can "do it all" and thus be an effective soloer.

The problem, of course, is that the various weapons/professions don't have defined rolesin this game right now, and the weapons don't have significant weaknesses. The weapons are actually more or less the same, at this point. Rifles, on Live Server, are the one weapon that really has a niche and some major strengths and weaknesses -- they are extraordinarilypowerful at Master, but have a 2.5x melee penalty and require you to be prone in order to be accurate with them. Now that the 2.5x penalty will be taken away and their accuracy is dramatically increased, they will be more like pistols and carbines.

Anyway, you get my point I think. In an ideal world, this is how the various professions would be balanced. But we're many, many months away from being able to have that sort of discussion in SWG. First we need to fix the professions, then we need to figure out what their roles are, and only then can we worry about balancing the classes. That's my opinion, at least.

Samra, I agree completely. Each weapon should have their distinct roles, distinct advantages and disadvantages.. Problem is, when you make statements like what I quoted above, that's all some people see.

A lot of the problem is that between the two classes (pistoleer/bh), has always been thatthey just see the black and white...points spent, damage in combat window, and of course, the specials. The gray is often left out because often times, where you and I realize there is a lot more to it...others don't. So when many of the posters on these forums see a statement like that, they will just agree without thinking about how those changes get balanced even further. This is especially true of the devs, because it's us players that know the most about the game...because we play it more.

It's kind of like what Wepps used to do. Never give the full story, only the part he wanted you to see. Of course, I realize you don't mean to mislead anyone...just be careful, because a lot of people are going to cling to everything you say. Not that I blame them, the Pistoleers are very lucky to have had a couple of the better correspondents around, whether you can get the devs to actually listen or not.

There's three sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth.

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Shadow2k wrote:

Samra, I agree completely. Each weapon should have their distinct roles, distinct advantages and disadvantages.. Problem is, when you make statements like what I quoted above, that's all some people see.

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You're right ... I tend to simplify things a bit on the forum, for a lot of reasons. My points, which I could spend pages of text explaining, get distilled into bullet points and catch phrases. While I know what's on my mind long-term, some folks don't see past the catch phrase. Part of the problem is that I keep making the same 5-10 points over and over, so they become a sort of shorthand for me at this point. I don't have time to have the sort of discussion I'm having with you right now 20 times a week,so I just condense the point I'm trying to make into a short paragraph. Some people get what I'm saying, but you're right that many don't see the nuance andlatch on to it for their own reasons.

I'm not sure what I should do about that, as a practical matter. One thing you should know is that my posts on Correspondent forums are more like this conversation and less like the quick bullet points that I list on forums, because I want to give a fuller picture of what's going on. For instance I think I'm the only person on those forumssince Ijoined themwho has mentioned the problems that Carbineers and Commandos face in my posts. My focus has to be drawing attention to Pistoleer issues(obviously) but I want the Devs to get a sense of perspective and to see that I have some perspective of my own.

Anyway, good points all around.

voodoo i'll meet you anywhere anytime in pvp and you spam bodyshot whatever and i'll spam lastditch and we'll see who wins lol

Dubious, Master Smuggler, Pistoleer, Naritus

Water said:

"Quote:
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Points d is so we can hunt our marks and advance in profession
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I've heard this comment before. Marks are hard to kill, so BH's need more power to take them down! What people don't realize is that this extra power WILL be used on regular destroy missions, PvE and PvP! When I say more power, I'm not only talking about damage! Wepps wants more defense modifier using the same "marks are one-shoting us" excuse!

So, marks are hard to kill? Well, adjust their difficulty! Only BHs have access to this missions, so it's pretty easy to balance it, without unbalancing the rest of the game! "

Well, you can look at marks as training for Jedi, our ultimate mark. I don't think "adjusting" the Jedi difficulty (translate nerf) is possible without a cry from the Jedis and wanna be Jedis.

I wouldn't want it anyway .