Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Tracking down accuracy woes
Ackehece wrote:
MrFunSocks wrote:
Because I'm a rifleman too foo'. The 30 second timer wasn't introduced to carbineer KDs until much later, HAM costs weren't increased simultaneously, scatter pistols are the chief gun of a BH, whereas a FWG5 was never any better than a repub, both Commando and smuggler can afford the SPs to completely master another profession, and smuggler isn't a true combat profession anyway, only 1 line of it even has combat abilities. Bleeds weren't nerfed, they were made so armor applied, only fire DoTs were actually reduced, affecting only commandos and BHs.
hmmm, bounty hunter is not a pure combat profession either. 7/8 of one yes but not pure... over 1/3 of your points are spent on scout skills not on combat (master marksmen, master BH) does not equal (master rifleman, master marksmen) in combat points ^_^
oh an bleeds were nerfed... we used to be able to stack multiple bleeds on the same pool.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 04-02-2004 09:35 PM
Also would like to add, charge shot was not on timer because of a bug, they fixed it to be inline with every other kd. It was the only kd that wasn't put on a timer at the same time. Geez man get a clue....
Over all, not bad on most monsters at master. However, on higher end monsters, there is a significant issue. On the higher mobs, since pistoleers don't have much armor piercing, it is impertive that we hit our targets. I found I had more trouble hitting higher end mobs at Master Pistoleer, and as a result, I died sooner rather than later.
2) Accuracy in PvP
Against a "normal" player, fine - not too much problems. People who have "stacked" their defenses, at master I absolutely could not hit them. I dropped pistoleer and have not tested it out after patch though, but something tells me I would still be hitting for under 50%
3) Accuracy vs Defense Stackers
Horrid, abso-freakin'-lutely horrid. I had a 10 minutes friendly dual against one. I could not hit him - he kept hitting me but I healed and was very well buffed. In the end - we both got incapped from Muon gold running out.
All this is from a Master Pistoleer's perspective, who dropped the class soley because of the horrid accuracy and took up and is now a Master Rifleman. You can't kill your target if you can't hit them.
Solution: Don't look for a nerf against Rifleman. That will not solve any pistoleer problems. Each Master profession should receive at least 130 accuracy. A Master Pistoleer has one of the lowest accuracy at master of any profession in the game. The highest are TKA (210) and Rifleman (180). Even with the nerf to defense stacking, it still is challenging to hit people because of defenses. Something else to keep in mind, is that currently, a pistol can shoot as far as a carbine and a rifle. This is a horrid design flaw by the devs, and I believe is the main problem with the accuracy issues. Yet, the devs refuse, or claim it can't be changed.
So sum up: Pistoleers/Carbineers and the rest should have at least 130 accuracy at master.
Most Accuracy should be given at the Master level to avoid severe dabbling.
Encourage devs, in combat pass, to redo accuracy limitations with weapons. It is possible to hit poeple beyond 65 meters with the code...just ask Combat Medics. Would solve a lot of accuracy problems.
Just my tree-fitty coming from a former Master Pistoleer and a current Master Rifleman.
Ackehece wrote:
pistol accuracy = +105
pistol accuracy while standing = +15
pistol accuracy while moving = +30
rifle accuracy = +170
rifle accuracy while moving =+10
notice the fact that rifleman get hosed if they move and have no +accuracy mod for standing like pistoleers
this assumes that both professions have master marksmen (so that the rifleman can shoot at nearly the same rate as a pistoleer) without master marksmen rifleman is 2.5 - 5 secs depending on specials at master with master marksmen 1.07 i believe is best rate (can cap with skill tapes)
Thats if your JUST looking at plain numbers and making TONS of assumptions. Plain fact is, a rifleman because of such a high accuracy, negates his own movements penalties. I would go as far as to say, if your a master rifleman, and cant hit me, at 3m. while we are both moving, YOU personally need to get a new, no shiite gun.
As far as specials go, again, your ignoring the plain truth of the situation. A rifleman, without master, with no skill tapes will fire just as fast with his decent guns as a pistoleer will with theirs. A decent damage geno, looted of course, will have 3.0 or higher speed.
Ignoring a decent krayt Dx2, or rep, a rifleman with a decent rifle, will match a pistoleer for damage with their AUTOATTACK, while we spam out best specials. Thats all besides the point though, this is about PISTOLEER problems with accuracy.
Simply put, again, like in my first post, with an accuracy made Dx2, or even an accuracy made CDEF(more or less the most accurate guns in the game, more or less) pistol, we will never, EVER get more then a +30 to hit someone, EVER even while moving. Rifleman in my guild in PvP are running around at point blank with +50 to hit their target or better. They are playing our game better then us, and I for am am tired of being pushed back to the minor leagues.
DiLune wrote:
Don't forget that pistoleer specials appear to have an inherent accuracy bonus. Its been a while, but if I recall the pistoleer specials are +35 and the marksman specials for pistol are +25.
Simply out man, you suck as a rifleman. I watched a girl in our guild level rifleman in a week, when she hit 4-2-4-4 she could hit me without ANY problems unless I went fencer and centered. Your just flat out, bad, have a bad gun, or lying to protect your profession when you say you cant fire at or close to the speed cap, and that you have poor accuracy.
I'm also getting REALLY **edit**ing tired of this "well untill I hit master" argument bullcrap. Rifle can be leveld just as fast as anything else, and in PvP all that matters is masters, PvP is the end game for masters of combat professions. I could care less if at 2-0-2-2 you cant hit the broad side of a barn as a Rifleman in PvP. All I care about is that my 92 skill points affords me a asskicking, while your 92 skill points affords you Demi-god status. Sorry if this sounded mean, but I'm sick, I havent slept well, and I'm REALLY begining to get pissed at all these rifleman bandwangoners who dont know **edit**e about their own profession, and use lame arguments based on someone else not knowing about it either. Pistoleer needs fixing, and so does rifleman, its just our fix will help us, your fix will bring you in line with I dont know...at least the power of jesus?
coln wrote:
Simply out man, you suck as a rifleman. I watched a girl in our guild level rifleman in a week, when she hit 4-2-4-4 she could hit me without ANY problems unless I went fencer and centered. Your just flat out, bad, have a bad gun, or lying to protect your profession when you say you cant fire at or close to the speed cap, and that you have poor accuracy.
Ah coln, such a bitter young man - obviously you don't have good guns either and or your just flat out bad or you must not be a master or it would be near impossible to hit you with you dodge being the unholy number that it is a fencer tka pistoleer. As for leveling in 1 week to master rifleman - it is possible but so can every other profession (excepting maybe BH) in the game. When most rifleman started out though it did take a factor of 5 or 6 longer then any other profession (wish that they would put back the 2.5x damage modifier in for us)
I'm also getting REALLY **edit**ing tired of this "well untill I hit master" argument bullcrap. Rifle can be leveld just as fast as anything else, and in PvP all that matters is masters, PvP is the end game for masters of combat professions. I could care less if at 2-0-2-2 you cant hit the broad side of a barn as a Rifleman in PvP. All I care about is that my 92 skill points affords me a asskicking, while your 92 skill points affords you Demi-god status. Sorry if this sounded mean, but I'm sick, I havent slept well, and I'm REALLY begining to get pissed at all these rifleman bandwangoners who dont know **edit**e about their own profession, and use lame arguments based on someone else not knowing about it either. Pistoleer needs fixing, and so does rifleman, its just our fix will help us, your fix will bring you in line with I dont know...at least the power of jesus?
As for until i "HIT MASTER" crap as you so eloquently put it - it is a fair arguement until master a pistoleer with the same boxes filled will eat a rifleman for breakfast. Master Box should be upped in ability for the pistoleer - add more speed to it (like +30) and move part of the +20 (I would say +10 of it) further down the tree so that it helps a bit sooner - with that you should be able to cap any special (unless you are like us and have 9sec pistols)
with duel wield (if it give you a 50% damage bonus) and with a higher speed and just a bit more accuracy you would have nothing to complain about at all...
As for not know **** about the rifleman profession -seems that you don't or you would not be such a complainer, you are probably a person who thinks rifleman can solo all the content in the game(NOT)- please if you want things fixed try to be positive and offer solutions for what you view as a problem.
Ackehece wrote:
coln wrote:
Simply out man, you suck as a rifleman. I watched a girl in our guild level rifleman in a week, when she hit 4-2-4-4 she could hit me without ANY problems unless I went fencer and centered. Your just flat out, bad, have a bad gun, or lying to protect your profession when you say you cant fire at or close to the speed cap, and that you have poor accuracy.
Ah coln, such a bitter young man - obviously you don't have good guns either and or your just flat out bad or you must not be a master or it would be near impossible to hit you with you dodge being the unholy number that it is a fencer tka pistoleer. As for leveling in 1 week to master rifleman - it is possible but so can every other profession (excepting maybe BH) in the game. When most rifleman started out though it did take a factor of 5 or 6 longer then any other profession (wish that they would put back the 2.5x damage modifier in for us)
I'm also getting REALLY **edit**ing tired of this "well untill I hit master" argument bullcrap. Rifle can be leveld just as fast as anything else, and in PvP all that matters is masters, PvP is the end game for masters of combat professions. I could care less if at 2-0-2-2 you cant hit the broad side of a barn as a Rifleman in PvP. All I care about is that my 92 skill points affords me a asskicking, while your 92 skill points affords you Demi-god status. Sorry if this sounded mean, but I'm sick, I havent slept well, and I'm REALLY begining to get pissed at all these rifleman bandwangoners who dont know **edit**e about their own profession, and use lame arguments based on someone else not knowing about it either. Pistoleer needs fixing, and so does rifleman, its just our fix will help us, your fix will bring you in line with I dont know...at least the power of jesus?
As for until i "HIT MASTER" crap as you so eloquently put it - it is a fair arguement until master a pistoleer with the same boxes filled will eat a rifleman for breakfast. Master Box should be upped in ability for the pistoleer - add more speed to it (like +30) and move part of the +20 (I would say +10 of it) further down the tree so that it helps a bit sooner - with that you should be able to cap any special (unless you are like us and have 9sec pistols)
with duel wield (if it give you a 50% damage bonus) and with a higher speed and just a bit more accuracy you would have nothing to complain about at all...
As for not know **** about the rifleman profession -seems that you don't or you would not be such a complainer, you are probably a person who thinks rifleman can solo all the content in the game(NOT)- please if you want things fixed try to be positive and offer solutions for what you view as a problem.
A) I've been a amster pistoleer for about 5 months now, I havent yet hit master fencer. Either way, with defense capped at 125 such an "un-godly" number means nothing when fighting a rifleman. My dodge is offically at 156 right now, In a duel agasint a master rifleman in my guild I dodge 3 times out of 20 shots. 3 times. Un-godly number my ass. As far as accuracy goes my friend we have 95, the LOWEST in the game. Other then Pikeman our guns have the lowest cap for accuracy made weapons. Of course thats ok that I know more about both our professions then you do. I dont expect everyone to know anything at all. Thank you for proving my expectations were well founded, and so far have gone unbroken. Furthermore, I could give no less of a **edit** about how 6 months ago it was a thin hairs width harder to master your profession. Since the end of june our profession has been disgustingly awful, and has gotten no better. You got the greatest buffin the game, speed, accuracy, removal of your only MAJOR downside. In august I stood at the top of the hill at the fort in bestine and watched a master rifleman destroy in seconds everyone coming up the hill at us dropping them all before they even got halfway to me on the radar. You were always good, you just had to be smart. Now, you just have to be a simian and write shakesspear with your 100 room locked breathren. Tapping **edit**ing keys. MAN UP AND ADMITT YOU ARE OVER POWERED.
B) I could care less about you "woes" in accuracy at anything but master. Even more to the point, a 4-4-4-4 rifleman unless he really does suck, will wipe the floor with a 4-4-4-4 pistoleer. A 3-3-3-3 rifleman could kill a 3-3-3-3 pistoleer if he wasnt an idiot. As I stated before, PvP as stated by TH himself(not that his word is worth much but meh) PvP in the GCW IS THE END GAME, for vetren players. Masters. I could care less again about your woes as a novice rifleman. What matters is master, and at master, rifleman are to powerful. Dual wield is months away, and only a complete fool would use that as anything in an argument. As if its implementation will even begin to bring pistoleer to an equal level. ITs the same as bringing up player made GEO pistols. Something for poeple grasping at straws. As far as thepossibility of a 50% damage bonus, we know NOTHING about it. I may simply be astetics, or it may increase our damage by 50% while lowering our already awful accuracy thus making it a useless perk. But again, only someone grasping for straws would use something he and nobody else knows nothing about as evidence in an argument. As far as not knowing **edit** about your profession, let me lay some **edit** out for you because obviously you need an education. As a matter of fact, the only "content" a rifleman cant solo with full buffs, food and drugs in this game are nightsister. The same was true of smugglers before the bleed patch. Its called conceal shot, use it next time. You professions only "downsides" are utterly negatable by buffs. Ours are only compounded by them. As far as DPS, you outweigh every other profession in the game in PvP. Your accuracy allows you to negate any penalties involved iwht moving, and distance, meanwhile we suffer -80 at beyond 50 meters, and while burst running. With top material, our best accuracy made pistol will net us possibly a +40 to hit while moving agasint any target.
So just suck it up pal. MAN THE **edit** UP and admitt you have an overpowered profession. I'm willing to admitt that TKA KD/dizzy needs works as it removes the skill in a battle. I'm willing to admitt that fencer by itself is already to powerful when centered. However I have yet to see you even give an inch when the facts speak for themselves. I have yet to meet a REAL rifleman in this game who hasnt admitted that rifleman is overpowered.
When I was Master Pistoleer (regaining it now) I'll echo what others have said. PvE accuracy is 'ok' but PvP accuracy is absolutely horrid.
Personally, my solution would not be to decrease rifleman accuracy since nerf calling typically gets ignored. A better solution would be to increase (double?) our accuracy while moving. It fits the profession and our role as a mobile combatant.