Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The Bounty Hunter / Pistoleer Issue discussed!!! +Please Read+
+50 PistolAccuracy +25Pistol Speed + Ranged Defense
Should Read
+50 PistolAccuracy +25Pistol Speed + 2 Ranged Defense
Good post DarthMustang, nice to see all the bonuses stacked up.
LordJunior, obviously no amount of debate or discussion will sway your decision. You have this delusion that the only significant mods are accuracy and speed, which I assure you are not true. If you are unwilling to even consider the opinion of many others on this thread, many of which are actually pistoleers/BH then arguing with you is pointless.
How are they better than a Pistoleer? We have equal speed, better accuracy running, equal accuracy standing, and only slightly less accuracy when kneeling or prone (who misses when kneeling/prone anyway? I never do). As pistoleers we get very nice defensives vs specials (vs. knockdown isa biggie). We have some decent dodging capabilities which if I understand right will allow you to evade an attack regardless of enemy accuracy. We have BodyShot3, we've got a melee AOE attack, a ranged non-cone multi-target attack....Hell we've even got stopping shot which is capable of one-shotting someone who is unarmored- Shall I go on? BHs get no defensives at all to compliment their weapon abilities. They also lack enough skill points in the end to further diversify their character much at all. They are purelybuilt for killingpower in pvp, and yetall it takes is a good knockdown defensetonullifytheir best attack.I fail to see the 'better'. About the only pistol edge a BH does get over us is eyeshot and fastshot.I thinkI'd rather go withstopping shot, some defensives,and plenty of leftover skill points.
Somebody above mentioned that you should have to count all the marksman and scout skill boxes when comparing how many skills points were spent by a BH to achieve pistol mastery versus a Pistoleer. This is FALSE. Any scout skill boxes filled in by a BH should NOT make him better at using a pistol. Likewise Rifle and carbine skill boxes should not help either. A BH should not be given uber pistol skills just because they blew all their points on scouting skills and spread them thin across 4 weapons. This makes no sense.
Pistoleers expend more skills points on pistol skills and spend FAR MORE xp on pistoleering than any other class and yet have only marginal benefits. Having a lot of special moves is not a good enough bonus, as most of them are broken or suck. I have so many moves available to me that I've tried once and never used again.
I'm going to add one small comment here based on the discussion of the fact that BH should be the best at PVP while the Pistoleer should be best at PVE. I disagree with this viewpoint entirely. If you look at the base skills to get to the BH, ie the Scout tree you notice they have an entire trapping line (which is only usefull against creatures) and the hunting line has a bonus to hit against creatures.
I never understood while the traps where creature only. If you throw a tac down and a human steps on it.. he isn't going to be immune to it and it's only going to affect a dog walking by.
But, taking the entire class into perspective, a BH should be way more effective against acreature than a base line marksman taking only the pistol tree and maxing out pistoleer by simply calling on his scout experiences in the field.
BH is nothing more than a collection of professions, just like everyone else will end up taking. The problem is that the parent profession BH is totally broken. It's a mish mash of other professions that totally steals their strengths for less xp spent. This is a big balance issue. BH needs skill ladders that have to do with finding people and collecting bounties, not doing what other professions were designed to do, only better.
And the reason why not all pistoleers take up the pistol line of BH is because some pistoleers don't want to know anything about scouting, rifles, and carbines. Should they be worse at using a pistol because they know nothing about scouting, rifles, and carbines? Of course not, thats nonsense.
Thank you to SmugglerFlux for point this out.... why is the pistoleer marginally better then the BH... hrmm... whoever said 1 point of speed cry you a river why dont you read that I said that really doenst bother me... the +15 accuracy to BH is what bothers me. I dont mind BH's having added benefits, but buys, BH's are NOT the most feared in the universe. Heck 2 of them died in the SW movies, one died to a smuggler. We always have examples of people who take the profession and make a hero image of it. This is what the fett's did and I guess even a ROBOT called IG-88 but we never saw him in the movies. I am merely saying that I cannot understand why BH is more accurate then the pistoleer.
Scout makes me stronger? so does marksman tree? then if I master all marksman and all scout and all pistoleer certainly I should be better then the BH pistol user, right? (assuming I am a pistoleer) hrmmm why doesnt that work out *shrugs*
SmugglerFlux wrote:
Zzik that argument is getting really old. If I create a Master Scout, Master Marksman, Master Pistoleer with a little bit of medic thrown in, do I get to be the best Healer in the game? No. Why not, I spend all my points and I have none left, so by your argument I should be given uber healing to make my choices worthwhile.
BH is nothing more than a collection of professions, just like everyone else will end up taking. The problem is that the parent profession BH is totally broken. It's a mish mash of other professions that totally steals their strengths for less xp spent. This is a big balance issue. BH needs skill ladders that have to do with finding people and collecting bounties, not doing what other professions were designed to do, only better.
And the reason why not all pistoleers take up the pistol line of BH is because some pistoleers don't want to know anything about scouting, rifles, and carbines. Should they be worse at using a pistol because they know nothing about scouting, rifles, and carbines? Of course not, thats nonsense.
A bounty hunter isa collection of professions designed around a class whose sole purpose is to be the best one on one combat class in the game. The penalty of being an exceptional one on one class is that there is only one thing you can do, and that is excel at weapons.
This isn't a matter of what skills you feel like learning, the devs have decided that if you want to be the best combat character you have to suffer through a lot of skills you might not want to learn.
There is no way I can get my point across without you applying a little empathy and putting yourself in a bounty hunters shoes. Most bounty hunters probably loathe the scout skills required to become a BH, but their payoff is being better in combat. A pistoleer has versatility and a bounty hunter does not.
I'm not sure the Bounty Hunter is designed to be the best one-on-one combat "profession", since the game is multi-professional. Who are you better than? Are you using a Carbine? I promise, a Carbineer master with the BH Carbine line (only), has more offense potential...if that's the question, than compare to a master bounty hunter. Same with pistoleer + BH vs pure bounty hunter.
Master Bounty Hunter is a "hybrid". They are actually just as versatile as the pistoleer, but in a different way. They change weapons to achieve their versatility. Need a heavy weapon or to hit armor that has no defense against lightning? check. Need to hit action pool and knockdown? Check. Need to hit mind pool or health pool? Check. You also get master scout (not used in PvP, only PvE), and to achieve that versatility, master marksman. That looks to me like versatile...not combat specialzed. And of course, that makes sense since it's "bounty hunter", not "shock troop".
When you pull out your pistol and duel a pistoleer, I promise they invested more points in "pistol" skills than you did as a bounty hunter...but I think they need to be a master pistoleer before they compare themselves to you...as it were. A master pistoleer can do a ranged knockdown, which is a great equalizer in PvP at the moment.
Bounty hunting requires tracking skills, and versatility to handle a variety of situations. Pure combat classes are just that...pure combat with a specific weapon of choice. It's akin to comparing a solider to a bounty hunter. One is geared for fighting on the front lines of a battle, , the other at tracking, staying hidden, then striking hard and fast (and often capture..not just kill). Two very different skill sets.
Note bounty hunters have no real defensive modifiers? I suspect defense is toned down way too far at the moment (since I evade maybe 1/100 hits with a high dodge modifer). If defense is boosted, bounty hunters will see that it's somewhat more difficult to square off with a profession that invested points in defenses and in pure combat professions. But no one will ever argue that a bounty hunter'soffense is not solid. Torso shot?Ouch....
Oh, and before I forget, bounty hunter is possiblyone of the fastest tracks to using all your points. Try master TKA + master Rifleman if you want to see a huge investment of in-game time and effort to achive an end. Sorry, but I just raised myself three boxes shy of master scout and master marksman in 2 days...we all know the basic boxes are ultra-fast compared to the elite boxes in time requirements. The only "elite" requirement you have is bounty hunting. That of course detracts nothing from bounty hunters..you're good in PvP, super in PvE, get the status of "master bounty hunter", and to boot, get special game quests/missions that no one else gets...
That is, unless raising the investigation line takes 3x the time as a normal 175-450K XP line?
So, if a master pistoleer is better at pistol than a master bounty hunter...
and a master carbineer is better at carbine than a master bounty hunter...
and a master rifleman is better at rifles than a master bounty hunter (with lightning gun)...
and, the master pistoleer, master carbineer and master rifleman are all able to diversify making their characters even more effective (can master more than one advanced profession)...
What is the purpose of a bounty hunter? Why would anyone want to be a bounty hunter?
If you wanted to be the most effective at pistol, what is the problem with taking up the pistol branch in bounty hunter as well as getting master pistoleer? Could it be that you want to be something else in addition to a pistol user? Shouldn't you have to have some kind of tradeoff for not spending 95% of your skillpoints in one area?
Any real life comparisons to how much time you spend with a weapon are meaningless. In order for the game to balance you have to pay bounty hunters for the investment they use in skill points or they are simply a waste of time.
By the way, I play a ranger/pistoleer.
I guess we are simply going to have to agree to disagree, though I do want to point out that I am not a bounty hunter, I am a ranger/pistoleer. You have turned this into a me vs you argument instead of standing back and looking at it objectively.
Experiance simply means nothing compared to skill points. In one month we have many master pistoleers and many master bounty hunters. The difference is that all the pistoleers are now learning their second master class while the bounty hunter does...nothing.
Gaining experiance is trivial, we can gain unlimited amounts. Skill points are far more important.