Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Focus Thread : Stopping Shot
Bipolo "Stalker" Naefae
Natures-Ranger wrote:
Personly i think /stoppingShot is working perfectly... The timer is fair, the root sticks just as long as it should! Dont tutch it is my advice...
Not to mention...
Without /stoppingShot as a Root and at the same time damage, we will be running ducks from a hunter firing at us with a 12 guage Shotgun! Only thing that would balance the removal from the "original" /stoppingShot we have now would be removing our Movement Reduction when using a Pistol, this way you could kite a Melee or catch up to a Rifleman or Carbineer...
Im sorry Badger, but i cant see /stoppingShot being any effective as /consussionShot even if it gives us the "Crowd Control" options back.. The root is vital for us.. Its that simple! We do not deal enough damage to be able to keep up if someone constantly is beating on us, thats why we need the root to give us some space to beat up someone"without taking damage" for a fewseconds!
Natures-Ranger wrote:
Natures-Ranger wrote:
Personly i think /stoppingShot is working perfectly... The timer is fair, the root sticks just as long as it should! Dont tutch it is my advice...
Not to mention...
Without /stoppingShot as a Root and at the same time damage, we will be running ducks from a hunter firing at us with a 12 guage Shotgun! Only thing that would balance the removal from the "original" /stoppingShot we have now would be removing our Movement Reduction when using a Pistol, this way you could kite a Melee or catch up to a Rifleman or Carbineer...
Im sorry Badger, but i cant see /stoppingShot being any effective as /consussionShot even if it gives us the "Crowd Control" options back.. The root is vital for us.. Its that simple! We do not deal enough damage to be able to keep up if someone constantly is beating on us, thats why we need the root to give us some space to beat up someone"without taking damage" for a fewseconds!
I think you've got the wrong idea. It seems like you think this proposal is for root to break on damage. It isn't.
Natures-Ranger wrote:
Ops... I guess i missunderstod you... Sorry man... In that case ill support any attempt at making the timer shorter
I would just been devestating if it turned out like /concussionShot!!
Yup, nice short timer of a couple of seconds and a 20 second anger/rage timer when it wears off so you cant perma root. That way we can whack stopping shot on a whole group of mobs... and... control a crowd!
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Natures-Ranger wrote:
Ops... I guess i missunderstod you... Sorry man... In that case ill support any attempt at making the timer shorter
I would just been devestating if it turned out like /concussionShot!!
Yup, nice short timer of a couple of seconds and a 20 second anger/rage timer when it wears off so you cant perma root. That way we can whack stopping shot on a whole group of mobs... and... control a crowd!
Mighty impressive... You will have my thanks if you manage to get that idea through!
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Yup, nice short timer of a couple of seconds and a 20 second anger/rage timer when it wears off so you cant perma root. That way we can whack stopping shot on a whole group of mobs... and... control a crowd!
Aren't you the proverbial sitting duck while that 20 second immunity timer is going off, though? I've seen you mention fighting solo and also being able to root multiple targets, but if you're a solo Pistoleer and root those multiple targets you're going to be screwed when those immunity timers kick in. Pistoleer alone cannot take a target out quick enough to counter attacks from multiple targets. It makes it more of a last ditch attempt to buy enough time to run away, at least the way I'm understanding it, to be used if you're alone.
I'm speaking from a PvE perspective as always, but I'm still not convinced that being able to work together with other Pistoleers to keep a PvE target "chain rooted" is a terrible, horrible thing. While melee professions aren't as effective tanks as they should perhaps be (which is a separate issue), they are completely ineffective if they have to chase their target all over the place. Stopping Shot keeps the target in place so the tanks can do their work, and it keeps the Pistoleer alive in the meantime.
I agree that we need more ways to control more than one target to completely fulfill the role of crowd control, but I don't see how asking for an essential nerf to one of the most desirable Pistoleer specials is going to accomplish that. If I want Concussion Shot, I'll become a Smuggler again.
Khristen wrote:
Aren't you the proverbial sitting duck while that 20 second immunity timer is going off, though? I've seen you mention fighting solo and also being able to root multiple targets, but if you're a solo Pistoleer and root those multiple targets you're going to be screwed when those immunity timers kick in. Pistoleer alone cannot take a target out quick enough to counter attacks from multiple targets. It makes it more of a last ditch attempt to buy enough time to run away, at least the way I'm understanding it, to be used if you're alone.
You have 20 seconds where you can KD, which gets you about 5 seconds, and you can disarm, another 5 seconds, and you can run around for the other ten and then root again that same target again if you want.
Khristen wrote:
Pistoleer alone cannot take a target out quick enough to counter attacks from multiple targets. It makes it more of a last ditch attempt to buy enough time to run away, at least the way I'm understanding it, to be used if you're alone.
The way I see it, if I have 3 Black sun Henchmen beating on me, I can use a combination of Stopping Shot, KDs and Disarms to control them, then use Intimidate (and stun when it works) and Warning shot to control their attack and defence before pouring on the damage with quickdraw and bodyshot.
In PvP, you can hit three players with stopping shot, draw one on and blast him then go back for the other two.
Khristen wrote:
I'm speaking from a PvE perspective as always, but I'm still not convinced that being able to work together with other Pistoleers to keep a PvE target "chain rooted" is a terrible, horrible thing. While melee professions aren't as effective tanks as they should perhaps be (which is a separate issue), they are completely ineffective if they have to chase their target all over the place. Stopping Shot keeps the target in place so the tanks can do their work, and it keeps the Pistoleer alive in the meantime.
Tanks not being effective is indeed a seperate issue and Stopping Shot is not supposed to be used so you can chain it on a target and have your tanks batter it.
Khristen wrote:
I agree that we need more ways to control more than one target to completely fulfill the role of crowd control, but I don't see how asking for an essential nerf to one of the most desirable Pistoleer specials is going to accomplish that. If I want Concussion Shot, I'll become a Smuggler again.
Stopping shot has already been nerfed, I want that nerf removed. Just to reiterate once again, Stopping shot stays as it is, it roots, it doesnt break on damage, but the immunity timer prevents perma rooting and the payoff is that we can bring the cooldown timer down to a few seconds.
Khristen wrote:
Aren't you the proverbial sitting duck while that 20 second immunity timer is going off, though? I've seen you mention fighting solo and also being able to root multiple targets, but if you're a solo Pistoleer and root those multiple targets you're going to be screwed when those immunity timers kick in.
As is, he can only root one every 50 seconds. WIth his proposed change, he'd be able to root... well, say there's 7 of the bad guys, he'd be able to root all 7 in the span of how long it takes to distribute a pyro fueled volley to all of them (say... 15 seconds?).
Now... How would he be more screwed rooting 1 target every 50 seconds as the cooldown wears off, comparedto rooting all 7 targets every 50 seconds as the immunity wears off?
It's only a nerf if perma-root things. For everything else... Well, 7 > 1.
I agree that we need more ways to control more than one target to completely fulfill the role of crowd control, but I don't see how asking for an essential nerf to one of the most desirable Pistoleer specials is going to accomplish that. If I want Concussion Shot, I'll become a Smuggler again.
That makes a lot more sense. It sounds very similar to what already exists with KD attacks, frustrating as it is if you try to hit it again too soon.
I've never been fond of the incredibly long timer on Stopping Shot, but it was the one thing keeping it from being totally overpowering. The thing that worried me the most about this suggestion is that I didn't want to see it's usefulness in PvE removed because of the PvP issues without some kind of compensation to it of equivalent usefulness. And keeping a target off of me so I can actually fight at range rather than in melee is what keeps me alive in a fight.
While I still ideally would like to see a reduction in the timer (to perhaps 20-30 seconds rather than 50) with the addition of a melee counter to it, I could adapt to this kind of a suggestion.
Glad I finally made it makes sense.
Thanks for your input, Khristen.
I don't pvp that much, simply because I'm not all that good at it and I picture myself as a primarily PvE template, so I really can't say one way or the other if I want Stopping changes for the pvp based reasons above. But I do have to say, since most of the time I'm the only CC player in a group, having it work the way it does right now is a life saver. The only improvement I can see would be shortening the cooldown timer on it so I don't have to fall back on Feint Death so often (five gurks pummeling the crud out of me isn't a happy thing)