Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Focus Thread : Stopping Shot
Werptik wrote:
I have seen 2 doctors stack 2 enahncements on folks. 2 Nutrient injections and so on. While, if you really think about it - it could make sense - but does provide to be unfair. Also, while there are many other things to complain about in the game - This does deserve some attention. They should not be able to be stacked.
this was a bug, and should have been fixed recently... also, this is no where near the approriate thread for a post talkin about doc buffs
BadgerSmaker wrote:
The problem with it is that you can perma root Ancient Krayts, and in PvP melee players can't fight back, they can heal... sure... but its no fun at all.
A 20 second window where you can no longer be stopped would be enough, just add an anger/rage timer to it and bring the cooldown timer down to a few seconds.
I will speak from both sides here if no one minds. I play 2 very different characters: 1 is pure melee. The other is pure ranged (MP/BH/Rif/CM mix). I agree that the cool down for stopping shot should be drastically reduced. I think it should be about 1.5 times the current KD timers.
True, it is only a root, but to a melee player in PvP it may as well be a KD (I have a very nice laser rifle I shoot back with for a whopping 75-100 DPS against a similar level). True, I can heal, but even a KD can be recovered from in 1 turn. I know this would hurt in PvE, but like someone said earlier, by juglingour shotswe can crowd control fairly well anyways.
That being said, I also like the idea of a debuff thingy. That should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-45 seconds (roots only - not snares) and this is why I think that:
Again, in PvP, a melee person is essentially dead against someone (like myself) who can use their snares, roots, and KDs in an effective manner to control the distance (read: kite) of my opponent. This also carries through to PvE. I respeced one of my toons (3rd server) today and managed to get most of the same template as my ranged guy (ran out of points) and ended up as CL 64. I went out looking for some CL80+ melee mobs and had no problem soloing them without armor by just juggling my shots.
Anyways, like I was saying, with a longer debuff like 30-45 seconds, it would be my skills against theirs. Not my skills against their luck in dodging my shots.
I love what the CU did for PvP. It made it possible for a multitude of players to rejoin what had become a purely melee ordeal. It also made it so that you did not have to have 20mil credits just to participate.
I am hoping for a PvP system where the ability to utilize your skills and tactics matters more than your luck in dodging shots.
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Jaspor wrote:
The difference between Stopping Shot and the new Concussion Shot is that Concussion Shot is now a "daze" too. Meaning the victim can do NOTHING while effected. To balance that out, it breaks on damage and has that "rage" debuff thingy preventing another hit from it.
Stopping Shot is only a root. So the victim can still attack, heal, eatdonuts, buff themselves, etc. And I guess that it is a good point that two slightly different effects can be stacked to have chain root someone still, I think this is more a bug with the stacking than an inherent problem with Stopping Shot not having an "immune" debuff like Concussion Shot.
So would you like to see stopping shot function more like Concussion Shot or stay as is?
I like the plain root thing. Read the description. A concussion shot litterally "dazes" its target from the concussion wave of the blast.
I'd like to see a kind of rage/anger thing, and a waaay faster recycle. Maybe a 30 anger/ 3-5 sec recycle.
The current cooldown is a bit long, but I think 2 seconds would be too short. I'm also not certain that multiple Pistoleers working together to keep a target rooted is a bad thing. Melee is more effective at tanking and attacking if their target isn't running all over the place. It's the job of crowd-control to keep that from happening. I have no experience in PvP, but I do know that against high-level PvE targets it is incredibly useful for Pistoleers to coordinate and keep a target rooted so that the melee tanks can fight effectively. In my mind, that ability pretty much describes the crowd-control aspect of Pistoleer.
In PvE, it's a valid tactic as far as I see it. It requires more than one Pistoleer working together to create a chained root. Ranged professions are *supposed* to keep their targets out of melee range. Being able to do this allows non-Jedi to actually have a chance at very high-level AI if it's coordinated well enough.It allows my group to take on something that would kill us without the ability to keep it away from the ranged people. I'm crowd control, not a tank. Advanced Stopping Shot is a Master-level ability, so it should have a bit of power behind it. Even Improved Stopping Shot is far enough up that it isn't a "gimmie".
Though personally I still think the roots are a bit daft, I mean an ancient krayt not wanting to move because someone is firing a pea shooter at them? o.O
Khristen wrote:
The current cooldown is a bit long, but I think 2 seconds would be too short. I'm also not certain that multiple Pistoleers working together to keep a target rooted is a bad thing. Melee is more effective at tanking and attacking if their target isn't running all over the place. It's the job of crowd-control to keep that from happening. I have no experience in PvP, but I do know that against high-level PvE targets it is incredibly useful for Pistoleers to coordinate and keep a target rooted so that the melee tanks can fight effectively. In my mind, that ability pretty much describes the crowd-control aspect of Pistoleer.
Ignoring the melee bit (Can't remenber the last time I went into high level PvE with grouped with a melee 
) the "incredible usefullness" you speak of essentially translates into an "I win button".
What does a krayt fighting a group of pistoleers equipped with stopping shot do when perma-rooted? Dies. Without scoring a hit on your party. Granted, the same effect can be achieved with a combo of paralyze, e-drain and timing, but in that case we're a bit closer to the elusive concept called tactics and actual skill on part of the players involved.
Reapplying the same state over and over again because it generates an effect that makes you essentially unharmable... Is that really balanced?
'course, IMHO, the issue isn't as much the root itself, but the way the AI reacts to it. Which, for "pure melee" mobs is not at all. What they really need to do is to make the AI more dynamic; If a krayt is rooted the krayt will start spitting after it's tormentors thus dealing damage that way, if a krayt is snared for any longer duration of time, he burstruns to give you something to think about.
(As for that last bit and the comment about keeping thetargets from running all over the place...A different debate, but technically, isn't what you're describing position control, and thus something the carbineers should be equipped to handle? (Or, in simpler terms, is the root from stopping shot really something belonging in our tree, or something that carbineers should get in one of theirs?))
/agree with Jaspor
leave it alone. There is nothing stopping melee characters from pulling out a riffle and pushing you out of range.
When you shoot a mob with disarm shot, if you then damage it in any way the effect breaks and it goes into a rage state. If you dont shoot it, it stays unable to attack you for five seconds.
Stopping shot wouldn't work like that, it would stay as is now, not breaking on damage but when it has worn off there would be a rage/anger timer where you cannot root it again for about 20 seconds.
I think this makes Pistoleer a more stand alone profession, as you can root, then KD and then disarm as they are all on differerent immunity timers and repeat.
You could alos root multiple targets, and if you miss, you can just shoot again until it sticks.
That is the way concussion shot worksas far as cooldowns and immunity is concerned, and that is how stopping shot should work, it just wont break on damage.