Pistoleer Archive

"I don't think it's unbalanced if it completely stops regen. There is a recovery to it as well as heals available for it. A 50% reduction of regen for the amount of time it takes for a recovery move to go through would not have enough of an effect to make it worth applying."

Let's see, state/kd recovery costs action, when you are low on action (-Too Tired-), get stunned then you cannot recover that state, get KD'd then you cannot stand back up- the old fashioned KD+Dizzy I win combination.

I sense you have not been hit by force sap from a Jedi yet, you will see how much of an effect 50% reduction does to you.

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SpunkyKuma wrote:
"I don't think it's unbalanced if it completely stops regen. There is a recovery to it as well as heals available for it. A 50% reduction of regen for the amount of time it takes for a recovery move to go through would not have enough of an effect to make it worth applying."

Let's see, state/kd recovery costs action, when you are low on action (-Too Tired-), get stunned then you cannot recover that state, get KD'd then you cannot stand back up- the old fashioned KD+Dizzy I win combination.

I sense you have not been hit by force sap from a Jedi yet, you will see how much of an effect 50% reduction does to you.

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I have been hit by force sap. I'm pretty sure there's no heal available for it in the doc lines and no recovery available for it in most of the proffession trees. It lasts for 5 minutes and is a real pain in the butt. If I had the ability to click a button and a second later the effect was removed it would be worthless. Stun is healable and recoverable. 50% reduction would mean nothing.

Quick note, the Squad Leader /formup command also clears Dizzy/Stun states for the group he/she leads. Came in quite handy during the Phase 4 Force village attacks.

For a jedi that has high action cost on Light Sabers is xxx4 healer a must to heal stun. Alot of jedis out there doesnt have that tree and will make stun uber agsint most jedi. That means they wont be able to do any thing till stun fades away. All professions must have some sort of stun recovery like all professions get KD recovery. Else it will make it very unbalanced.

Message Edited by opoko on 06-27-2005 05:07 PM

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opoko wrote:
For a jedi that has high action cost on Light Sabers is xxx4 healer a must to heal stun. Alot of jedis out there doesnt have that tree and will make stun uber agsint most jedi. That means they wont be able to do any thing till stun fades away. All professions must have some sort of stun recovery like all professions get KD recovery. Else it will make it very unbalanced.

Message Edited by opoko on 06-27-200505:07 PM

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

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opoko wrote:
For a jedi that has high action cost on Light Sabers is xxx4 healer a must to heal stun. Alot of jedis out there doesnt have that tree and will make stun uber agsint most jedi. That means they wont be able to do any thing till stun fades away. All professions must have some sort of stun recovery like all professions get KD recovery. Else it will make it very unbalanced.

Message Edited by opoko on 06-27-200505:07 PM

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I'm hoping they will put in stun as intended and we can see how that works out. If it works as a complete halt to regen then Pistoleers will be truely great crowd attack control, and if it works out too overpowered I'll ask for it to be toned down.

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Well, I think stun should work as intended but what Im saying is that all full templets jedi/non-jedi should have a stun recovery then. I dont feel like changing my profession and grind another tree. I feel like jedi are much harder to grind then any other combat profession. As it is now Im doing lower damage then a pistoleer with higher sac. I cant do more then 3-4 specials and Im out of action. With stun I can only stand there and heal till my force are out. Since the state buff from enchancer doesnt work and since Light saber both use action and force I can only see Im getting killed. I can try to stun my target but that will only drain my action and my opponent will use stun recovery.

All the sudden 0004 healer is a must.

But yes, we should give it a try. I truly think pistoleer must get a bit better since my alt is a bh/pistoleer. While I have done about half my oppnents health a rifle would have done all.

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opoko wrote:

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

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opoko wrote:
For a jedi that has high action cost on Light Sabers is xxx4 healer a must to heal stun. Alot of jedis out there doesnt have that tree and will make stun uber agsint most jedi. That means they wont be able to do any thing till stun fades away. All professions must have some sort of stun recovery like all professions get KD recovery. Else it will make it very unbalanced.

Message Edited by opoko on 06-27-200505:07 PM

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I'm hoping they will put in stun as intended and we can see how that works out. If it works as a complete halt to regen then Pistoleers will be truely great crowd attack control, and if it works out too overpowered I'll ask for it to be toned down.

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Well, I think stun should work as intended but what Im saying is that all full templets jedi/non-jedi should have a stun recovery then. I dont feel like changing my profession and grind another tree. I feel like jedi are much harder to grind then any other combat profession. As it is now Im doing lower damage then a pistoleer with higher sac. I cant do more then 3-4 specials and Im out of action. With stun I can only stand there and heal till my force are out. Since the state buff from enchancer doesnt work and since Light saber both use action and force I can only see Im getting killed. I can try to stun my target but that will only drain my action and my opponent will use stun recovery.

All the sudden 0004 healer is a must.

But yes, we should give it a try. I truly think pistoleer must get a bit better since my alt is a bh/pistoleer. While I have done about half my oppnents health a rifle would have done all.

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but what's wrong with 0004 healer being a must .. it will actually make jedi templates more variable, and provide more advantages/weaknesses to different trees... not to mention it will give master healers a bit more balance compared to defenders/enhancers

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bgold4 wrote:

but what's wrong with 0004 healer being a must .. it will actually make jedi templates more variable,

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You're laying out an awfully big contradiction there. If stun goes to work as they intend, yes, healer 0004 will be a must for any jedi template. Having every single jedi picking up 0004 healer does not increase variance; If anything, it decreases it by adding another branch to the "must have's" regardless of playstyle.

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BadgerSmaker wrote:
Just had an update on this, the true effect of the Stun state is still in concept so all ideas appreciated.

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To steal from Goldenrod; Thank the maker!

I still think that stun should reduce all regen rates noticably, but not completely. Not enough to make it *the* statel, not enough to force you to recover from it everytime, just enough that having it becomes the same kind of nuisance as dizzy and blind are; Whether to keep on with slightly less effeciency or waste a precious second and action to recover. Between action regen food and differing SAC costs it's hard to say what a good % would be to cripple without stopping, so any number I can think of atm is arbitary. A bit of a downside with this solution; Finding a good balance between 'must-have' and 'useful' won't be easy, and knowing the dev team, there'sa fair chance we'd end up with a useless version weeks after they actually make stun do *something*.

There's also the "budget" solution; If dizzy lowers defenses by much and accuracy by little, and blind accuracy a lot and defenses by little, stun could be made to do an equal bit of both. And then make them stack. Downside it's that it's quite frankly quite boring way to use to the state, upside is that it's probably not hard to balance and the fact that making it stack with dizzy and blind on their respective reductions still has a decidedly large potential for crowd control. On the other hand, I'm not sure what kind of reductution of defenses"much" means on the two states we have in the game, which means that a middle way might make the special in question to weak to be interesting to deploy.

Or it could be made to work like a sort of minature and recoverable movement/combat speed debuff. Upside is that it would be useful, downside is, well, it has potential to be too useful, making it to close a competition for other moves designed to the same thing. This makes it hard to balance; It can't be good enough to devalue other moves while if it sucks too much, no one will use it.

I think it has to be an attack control so that it fits with Pistoleer and PIkeman.

We already have damage reduction with intimidate, CM already hasacombat speed debuff and action regen debuff.

What effect can we deploy with our AoE that will hamper a targets ability to attack for about 30 seconds or until the state is cured?

Just had an update on this, the true effect of the Stun state is still in concept so all ideas appreciated.