Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Rifleman can tank better than we can?
RAMBOW wrote:
Weither it is working as intended or not, I still think Defense is a big Issue for pistoleers. We have the shortest range of any profession, the lowest damage output, we need to be able to take a beating. We need to be the tanks of the ranged professions. Pistol Defense (if it actually works) needs to get boosted... There should be a noticable difference between the damage a pistoleer takes from a Jedi or Melee profession next to the damage a Rifleman takes from them.
Againts a Defender with both Arua and Valor, its nearly impossible to hit him/her.
That's a very level headed post, ViolentAngel. Pretty much sums up the situation (apart from double xp, we don't need any more of that 
).
This is the official Combat Upgrade: Proffession Roles Overveiw.
Pistoleer
Primary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Attacker Control)
Secondary Role: Opponent Damage Reduction (Attacker Modifiers)
Offense: Weak(2)
Defense: Moderate(3)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)
The Pistoleer is a lightweight combat specialist. They move quickly around the field of battle softening up targets and reducing their effectiveness. The damage output of the Pistoleer is relatively low but given time and careful tactical control they are still fully capable of taking out targets on their own. The Pistoleer's abilities truly shine though when combined with a well organized group.
Pistoleers are similar in function as a Pikeman. They are more potent in their ability to reduce a target's combat effectiveness and make their opponents weaker in defensive ability. While Pistoleer skills may not create a significant power increase, it can be combined with many other profession's skill abilities to create a significant increase in tactical opportunity.
Profession Mixing Tip: As a versatile close to medium ranged combatant, Pistoleer can benefit greatly from other similar ranged professions. For example, a Pistoleer can add Teras Kasi or Bounty Hunter skills for defensive abilities or Carbineer skills for increased offensive and crowd control ability.
Rifleman
Primary Role: Long Range Damage Specialist
Secondary Role: Long Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Very Strong(5)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Moderate(3)
The Rifleman is an expert at long distance damage. Riflemen have a few support abilities to help them in this role including abilities to conceal themselves and keep opponents at a distance for a short while. Once an opponent has closed the distance however the Rifleman is extremely vulnerable.
The role of the Rifleman is that they are the embodiment of long range damage dealing. They should have abilities that allow them to maneuver at the edges of combat setting up devastating long range attacks and shots from hiding. Other ranged profession abilities such as Carbineer or Pistoleer could be used to expand and enhance a Rifleman's ranged combat options or melee profession skills like Teras Kasi may be desired to allow the Rifleman to better deal with opponents who would eventually close with them.
(yeah, you're right double xp leads to more jedi overcrowding. I support the notion ofa truly post-purge server (RP Server)with no jedi orthe introductionpre-purge servers)
Message Edited by ViolentAngel on 09-29-2005 11:16 AM
ViolentAngel wrote:
This is the official Combat Upgrade: Proffession Roles Overveiw.
Pistoleer
Primary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Attacker Control)
Secondary Role: Opponent Damage Reduction (Attacker Modifiers)
Offense: Weak(2)
Defense: Moderate(3)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)
Rifleman
Primary Role: Long Range Damage Specialist
Secondary Role: Long Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Very Strong(5)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Moderate(3)
ViolentAngel wrote:
What are you basing that on?
You can't do any recover moves to get rid of Stopping Shot, Intimidate or Disarm. We rock at Damage Control.
Do you honestly see anyone miss that often? Do you expect hostiles to miss you on a regular basis? This game simply doesn't work like that. I beat my mates rifle bh with my pistol bh hands down everytime. (jedi exlcuded) All of the tank classes in this game have and need abilities to claim to be tanks. The only reason the melee types are hard to hit is becuase of the +250 bonus from Center of Being. Do you beleive Pistoleers need that much more def?
The reason a Pikeman is a better tank than a Swordsman is becuase of their Intimidate and KDs. Like us.
Rifle users take 75% extra melee damage, we take only 25%. Is that Tank? Concusion Shot makes Intimidate land nearly every time. Apply Low Blow too and you have a hostile that is doingjust overa quarter of it's regulardamage output. That's tank. I'm a BH Pistols. I use Disarm every few shots. I get two or three free attacks every time I use it.
I wouldn't be comfortable playing as a rifleman. Without a good positional advantage to get prone and concealed into, what have you got? Headshot, StartleShot and Kneecap? A better range only helps when you have that positional advantage. Kneecap won't give you enough breathing space to get concealed again. A bigger gun and slightly better defense helps. But I know what I would rather have...
Rifle take 75% extra melee dmg and we take 25% more?**edit** are you talking about? This post was about the fact that Riflemen have only 5 less def than we do and they rarely have to worry about getting hit with 65-80m range and a snare, not about us being a tank like melee toons, read the title "Riflemen can tank better than we can?" not "**edit** TKM's can tank better than we can?".Riflemen take about the same amount of dmg we do, we have no special resistance against armor break, BTW concussion shot is a mez/root, now why would that help intimidate? even so its a smuggler skill.
Also center of being is +500 with improved, and how do you get 2 -3 extra attacks out of disarming shot when it breaks on dmg and lasts only 5 seconds if you dont shoot, and on top of that fire it every few shots when it has like a 10-15 second immunity? Also, you rely on pistoleer KD Firearm Strike? mmkay yea try landing that on a riflemen 80m away when it has a 5m range. Besides all this, this post came out of the chef forum about the possible bugged ranged def vs melee def, where if it was working like once thought then pistoleer would have more melee defense than a rifleman like it should be because of our requirement to do most of our fighting up close. Btw, next time you duel your rifleman buddy, dont start 15m away, have him go out to his max range, then start, see how you do then, its easy tokill onewhen startingclose, try it in his house.
Message Edited by SoulHunters on 09-30-2005 06:46 PM
Message Edited by SoulHunters on 09-30-2005 07:44 PM
SoulHunters wrote:
Rifle take 75% extra melee dmg and we take 25% more?**edit** are you talking about? This post was about the fact that Riflemen have only 5 less def than we do and they rarely have to worry about getting hit with 65-80m range and a snare, not about us being a tank like melee toons, read the title "Riflemen can tank better than we can?" not "**edit** TKM's can tank better than we can?".Riflemen take about the same amount of dmg we do, we have no special resistance against armor break, BTW concussion shot is a mez/root, now why would that help intimidate? even so its a smuggler skill.
Also center of being is +500 with improved, and how do you get 2 -3 extra attacks out of disarming shot when it breaks on dmg and lasts only 5 seconds if you dont shoot, and on top of that fire it every few shots when it has like a 10-15 second immunity? Also, you rely on pistoleer KD Firearm Strike? mmkay yea try landing that on a riflemen 80m away when it has a 5m range. Besides all this, this post came out of the chef forum about the possible bugged ranged def vs melee def, where if it was working like once thought then pistoleer would have more melee defense than a rifleman like it should be because of our requirement to do most of our fighting up close. Btw, next time you duel your rifleman buddy, dont start 15m away, have him go out to his max range, then start, see how you do then, its easy tokill onewhen startingclose, try it in his house.
That's Kiting, not Tanking. Riflemen Kite better than we do? Well, duh...
I'll give you a point though, I wasthinking of Overwhelming Shot, not Concussion Shot. But I'm sure you could have worked that out by the way I was using it. Smuggler skill? Do you not have 250 point skill cap on your character? Disarm breaks on damage? Does it? I could have sworn it's Panic Shot that breaks... Maybe I'm out of date. It was damn cheap anyway. All I can rmbr isusing it against Jedi hits post-cu... I've been Dual Wielding all month, I prbbly shouldn't even be on these forums.
Iam using CoB as an example of how much extra Def we would need before we would be able to see a notable difference.
Firearm Strike? Hell no, I use Underhand Shot becuase I have MBH and more. But again, you're talking about Kiting, not Tanking.
Could it be you simply don't understand the termswe're talking about? Is this your first MMOG? You don't have to reply to that...
SoulHunters wrote:
ViolentAngel wrote:
What are you basing that on?
You can't do any recover moves to get rid of Stopping Shot, Intimidate or Disarm. We rock at Damage Control.
Do you honestly see anyone miss that often? Do you expect hostiles to miss you on a regular basis? This game simply doesn't work like that. I beat my mates rifle bh with my pistol bh hands down everytime. (jedi exlcuded) All of the tank classes in this game have and need abilities to claim to be tanks. The only reason the melee types are hard to hit is becuase of the +250 bonus from Center of Being. Do you beleive Pistoleers need that much more def?
The reason a Pikeman is a better tank than a Swordsman is becuase of their Intimidate and KDs. Like us.
Rifle users take 75% extra melee damage, we take only 25%. Is that Tank? Concusion Shot makes Intimidate land nearly every time. Apply Low Blow too and you have a hostile that is doingjust overa quarter of it's regulardamage output. That's tank. I'm a BH Pistols. I use Disarm every few shots. I get two or three free attacks every time I use it.
I wouldn't be comfortable playing as a rifleman. Without a good positional advantage to get prone and concealed into, what have you got? Headshot, StartleShot and Kneecap? A better range only helps when you have that positional advantage. Kneecap won't give you enough breathing space to get concealed again. A bigger gun and slightly better defense helps. But I know what I would rather have...
Rifle take 75% extra melee dmg and we take 25% more?**edit** are you talking about? This post was about the fact that Riflemen have only 5 less def than we do and they rarely have to worry about getting hit with 65-80m range and a snare, not about us being a tank like melee toons, read the title "Riflemen can tank better than we can?" not "**edit** TKM's can tank better than we can?".Riflemen take about the same amount of dmg we do, we have no special resistance against armor break, BTW concussion shot is a mez/root, now why would that help intimidate? even so its a smuggler skill.
Also center of being is +500 with improved, and how do you get 2 -3 extra attacks out of disarming shot when it breaks on dmg and lasts only 5 seconds if you dont shoot, and on top of that fire it every few shots when it has like a 10-15 second immunity? Also, you rely on pistoleer KD Firearm Strike? mmkay yea try landing that on a riflemen 80m away when it has a 5m range. Besides all this, this post came out of the chef forum about the possible bugged ranged def vs melee def, where if it was working like once thought then pistoleer would have more melee defense than a rifleman like it should be because of our requirement to do most of our fighting up close. Btw, next time you duel your rifleman buddy, dont start 15m away, have him go out to his max range, then start, see how you do then, its easy tokill onewhen startingclose, try it in his house.
Message Edited by SoulHunters on 09-30-2005 06:46 PM
Message Edited by SoulHunters on 09-30-2005 07:44 PM
Uh 6th mmorpg actually, and I was not referring to kiting, nor was it mentioned, it was about DEFENSE, you know, the attribute that affects damage taken? However, in reference to riflemen kiting, of course they are more effective at never getting touched, which means their defense doesn't matter as much, its the fact that our ability to kite is much less so we end up fighting in close encounters more often yet our defense is barely more than that of a riflemen? This post was about the fact that melee defense is NOT being used by us, which if it was working like it was supposed to, then riflemen would have less melee defense than us which is now not the case. Basically Riflemen alone gives 65 Melee Def/130 Ranged Def, while Pistoleer gives130 Melee Def/135 Ranged Def. Ok erase melee defense, doesn't work with pistol equipped, so only 5 def advantage over riflemen, useless, but if system was working like it should, then we would have a 65 def advantage over riflemen up close, and thats more like it.
Also, I knew you meant overwhelming shot, I was just being an ass, and yes i have 250 sp, but I ll be damned if I have to pick up another profession just to get my PISTOLEER skills to work. Plus, panic shot breaks on damage, and so does concussion shot, which wasn't the case right after CU during whichI was a smuggler, but not sure about Disarming shot at that time since I did not have it, however I bet it went through the same conversion to a mez.
Message Edited by SoulHunters on 10-03-2005 11:54 AM