Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The reason why the Bounty Hunter MUST be better than the Pistoleer.
Yea I must not have. I wish I had a SS of that. He was challenging anyone to a duel saying he would win. DANGIT I should of taken the SS
But it can still easily be a BH who has mastered the Pistol tree. Put them against a pistoleer(who has nearly mastered all) then make a comparison.
Ok josth, im growing up. Can u address my points? No/Yes, you are a coward and dont deserve a Chef tag byyour name. Sure, its SWG, but this is a forum based on Planet Earth and you cannot address one point i have made, u only flame me at the end of you post.
GG Josth, better luck next time. BTW...welcome to the Nerf Bat
I have a huge problem with the Bounty Hunter exceeding our class in any pistol ability (even speed by +1). Doesn't make sense. You can argue all you want about " well, we hunt 4,000,000,000 HAM marks so we need it!" all you want...still doesn't make sense. If I sit in my backyard on the Dune Sea and snipe Womp Rats for 12 hours a day, while you sit in your backyard on Mandaloria and snipe Mynocks for 2hours with pistol, 2 hours with carbine, 2 hours with a rifle and then sit and set traps for 2 hours then set up camps for 2 hours and then skin animals for 2 hours THEN IN NO WAY SHOULD YOU EXCEED ANY OF MY SKILLS WITH A PISTOL. PERIOD. Should you be close in ability? Yes. Should you be comparable? Maybe. Should you be better or have specialized skills? NO...
I thought I had answered this, why insist that it come from one specific person? If you want higher pistol when fighting womp rats than BH I agree wholehartedly! When you want to use a pistol or carbine to kill a human target (ie NPCs and btw YOU) there should be no way a master of either should be a proficient. Once again, a BH kills HUMANs, it is not explicitly stated that pistoleers or carbineers do. Would you expect a SEAL sniper to be able to kill a deer as easily as a professional hunter? NO! A sniper kills humans, a hunter kills deer.
Cephme wrote:
So what if we are not ask good as BH's; we should not be. To get novice BH you need to be a master scout and a master marksman. For us we only need to finish one line of marksman. That makes it over 8 times tougher to qual for the novice BH than for the novice Pistoleer skill. So they should be able to beat us at our own game at teh same level, but we should be way further up the skill chart than a BH with the same exp points. So in my opinion this is rock solid and fair. I would consider Pistoleeer a middle tier profession with BH, Commando an the like benig far above an I am happy that the middle tier exists.
That logic doesn't work. Half of the bounty hunter requirements aren't even combat-related. They're learning how to pitch tents, skin animals and cookie weenies over the fire.
Plus, pistoleers don't live in a vacuum. We don't get pistoleer and then say to ourselves, "ok, that's good enough for me! I'm letting the other 150+ points rot! We pick up other combat-oriented professions.
In the end, we usually spend FAR MORE points on combat than a bounty hunter does.
Further, a bounty hunter spends 2 trees of skills on the pistol. That's it, 2! I spend 5.
Tell me why he should be better than me with a pistol again?
Bounty Hunters FIND people. Nowhere in any literature at all does anything tell us that bounty hunters are the masters of combat. Bounty hunters dabble in weapons, I specialize. Therefore, I should shoot better with my chosen weapon.
Steenky wrote:
I don't think theres a BH that will disagree about the innane requisite for scout. I only thing I can come up with, in regards to anything real world would be army/marine bootcamp. A good portion of that training involves land nav(exploration), bivuac assembly(survival), camoflage and conceilment(sic)(hunting/trapping?). Ok that last one was weak but see what I'm getting at? So a basicly trained soldier/marine would roughly be similiar to a novice BH. A master BH with more in depth weapons training would be more akin to a combat arms soldier/marine. All other classes seem to be more like militiamen, highly trained in a weapon, but not a full time profession.
You don't become a Master Gunfighter by dabbling. It's a lifestyle. On the other hand, you DO become a bounty hunter by dabbling. 2 trees on pistol, 2 trees on carbine, 1 tree on rifles, 1 tree on lightning rifle, 1 tree on finding people, 1 tree on roasting weenies on the campfire, 1 tree throwing grenades at animals, 1 tree on running uphill, 1 tree on foraging food in the woods... Get the idea? Bounty hunters don't master anything. They're professional jacks-of-all-trades.
The simple fact is that a master pistoleer has two and a half times the pistol XP that a bounty hunter does. There's just no way the bounty hunter should be better with that pistol. It doesn't make any sense.
Should a bounty hunter be better at a duel than a pistoleer? Possibly. Should a bounty hunter be better than someone like a TK master + Master Pistoleer? Not even in your wet dreams.
Ok first of all I meant for this to be a constructive thread not another flame board so all of you please keep at least a certain level of courtesy, thank you.
Now to adress some of the remarks posted
1. DX2
The pistoleer "signature" weapon is currently bugged so there is no point in comparing it to the scatter pistol as of today. Whenever the weapon patch is implemented we might have that discussion again.
2. The sout training
For all of you who think scout XP came sitting aroud a campfire singing cumbaya THINK AGAIN!
I mastered marksman a lot sooner that I mastered scout and I concentrated on animal targets the all time
By the time I mastered scout I was 35k into my 40k combat XP requirement, novice rifleman and Novice pistoleer. Those critters don't kill themselves and they don't let you skin them alive.
Now you could argument further by giving me the mask sent exploit. Yup true but I didn't use it since its not only an obvious exploit but would not have brought me anywhere closer to BH combat XP wise
3. Master Vs Master
BH Master = 217 points Vs Pistoleer Master = 92 points and you wonder why they best you?????
Now with this said the Matser BH might have a slight advantage on accuracy and speed but he has only 4 specials atached to his pistol line when the pistoleer gets how many???? Its not like we can knockdown somebody at close range (our knockdown is with a carbine did you guys check the HAM cost on those!), its not like we can target a man's weapon to make it fly of their hands (whatdisarm is supposed to do once fixed) and its not like we enjoy the amazing ranged, melee, knockdown, blind, dizzy, stun defenses (not counting dodge!) you guysreceive along the way.
Also why shouldn't I be offended that I have to circle weapons to do what the pistoleer can do with one??? I want to knockdown? Carbine only. I want large damage on a single target? Pistol only. I want to inflict damages in a certain area of effect? Light Lightning cannon only. Each of the BH weapon training are in fact very specific.
The big mistake is to consider that Master pistoleer has everything to do with offense. In fact a lot of your trainingconcerns dodging, sidestepping and other defensive techniques.
Also I can tell you one thing right now. Once defenses are fixed any BH stupid enough to duel a master pistol/Tkwill get spanked given they both wear the same amount of protection.
4. A pretty idiotic concern.
Most people who flame the BH do so in complete ignorance of the class requirements (I am currently both BH and pistoleer I share the pains of both class) and with a direct concern and emphasis on PvP. As if that game suddenly became a huge duelist Luna Park!
Here is my point of view on BH and PvP. Any BH standing in a cantina inviting people to challenge him is an idiot (a BH would shoot you in the back from 300 paces no risk taken). A BH that jumps to carbine underhand and immediately signs up overt faction is highly questionable. Like I said in other posts for me the BH is the NEUTRAL by excellence since they are all about money (one of their profession tree give them the title mercenary, that says it all!).
My 2 cents on this is the following. BH should be restricted to PvP in only 2 conditions, battlefields (hey after all its going to be a large engagement number over skill here!) and a solid system of PvP bounties. Aside from that the BH title should immediatly lock your duel and overt options. That would resolve a lot of the whinners concerns.
5. Whyis BH so popular.
- rapid payoff (significant skill increase per professional square filled)
- the last movie was all about them (Lets face it Jango made the movie!)
- no Jedi. Second most popular archetype in star wars beside Jedi? Bounty Hunter with a close third for smuggler.
This being said I am among the ones that agree that since the BH is an hybrid class and bears such benefits, obtaining those benefits should be more painfull. It wouldn't shock me if the devs decided to double the XP requirements of all the combat oriented BH trees (and I am pretty far away from master BH so I am not trying to protect any pseudo private hunting ground here!). That would avoid people walking in the BH profession with enough pistol and carbine XPs to already fill the first box of each specialization after their 40k grind.
6. What if?
Most people are so raw power oriented its almost frightening! If commandos had not been so hurt by bugged weapons everybody would probably be at their throats (that guy makes 5k damage in one shot! Well it IS called a rocket launcher you know!). The pistoleer arguing for 1 point of speed, the TK whining because the pistoleer also has a close range knockdown and thus prey in their backyard.
I'd like to remind all of you that nowhere are you locked in your options! I wanted to play a pistol oriented BH. I learned early that it wasn't a sound choice. You want to be effective in the BH profession you have to use all weapons.
I don't think whining for a 92 points character to be able to take on a 217 points character is a valid class concern to be crying on the devs shoulders about. Now, as I said before they are few things I would love to see happening to pistoleers:
- fixed specials
- fixed defenses
- dual pistol and holster I have to admit that it would be really awesome (kinda wondering how come it wasn't an option to start with given the western feel Star Wars movies have???)
Dimitrius
Bounty Hunter - Corbantis
i hate to burst someone bubble here, but
if a BH kills humans why oh WHY does he need to master scout?
scouting is ALL about killing creatures and living in the wild..now i could SEE your point IF 1 of 2 things were true,, you only needed the survival line, OR traps workd on all enemies and you needed trap4 survival4 to get bh..oterhwise, why the heck do you need to harvest and identiy NON HUMAN mobs to become a bounty hunter
wanna know the real answer?
just supposed they relaxed the requirements for bh to what i said above...every pistoleer/bh's dream would come true, master pistoleer/master BH anyone?
id love to use the BH pistol becuase it seems to doRELALY GOODdmg on any ar(0-3) mob ive watched my roomate fight(barring resists) whereas a pistoleer has no such option.
I don't think theres a BH that will disagree about the innane requisite for scout. I only thing I can come up with, in regards to anything real world would be army/marine bootcamp. A good portion of that training involves land nav(exploration), bivuac assembly(survival), camoflage and conceilment(sic)(hunting/trapping?). Ok that last one was weak but see what I'm getting at? So a basicly trained soldier/marine would roughly be similiar to a novice BH. A master BH with more in depth weapons training would be more akin to a combat arms soldier/marine. All other classes seem to be more like militiamen, highly trained in a weapon, but not a full time profession.