Pistoleer Archive
Thread: DE-10 vs Razor Knucklers WTS(sith)
Seekalaei wrote:
Well.
TKAs have one weapon as it stands now. Vibro Knucklers. VKs do Kinetic. Woohoo! Or we can use our bare knuckles.
Pistoleers already have multiple options.Striker does Kinetic, Tangle does Stun, FWG5 does Heat, DX2 does Acid at AP1, Republic doing Energy at AP1.. shall I go on? Let's not forget the Genosian Blaster..
Either way Ter ol' buddy, this is one battle I am not willing to fight. Heck, I could care less about fixing the potential DE-10. What good would it do us if all we can do is spam the same 4 specials?
Fix the goddamn profession, and **edit** the looted crap they give giving us to dissuade from fixing any real issues. Fix the profession, then ask for some love for the DE-10.
However, comparing TKA weapons to Pistols is ludicrous! We as TKAs have nothing. Granted, our profession works pretty well, but one little gift in the RKs isn't going to hurt anyone.
Message Edited by Seekalaei on 04-20-2004 01:05 PM
As a TKM, and a aspiring Master Pistol, I disagree with your assessment of TK. In my opinion TK is one of the only truly working professions. As such they deal insane amounts of dmg most times. As a TKM I can wade into a group of 5 rancors, with high kenetic armor, Bleed resist shirt, and a few timely Stim B Heals and walk out with hardly a scratch. And this is with the "only" weapon we have. I like the RK idea, and will sure take it, but Pistoleers, in my opinion, are saying that they need more options because lets face it, Pistols just deal the least amount of dmg out there. For instance, we were taking on a 80% resist to everything MOB on Dant. One of those named dudes....My wife, 4-3-4-2 TK, dealt more dmg than the Master Pistol in our group.
In short, what I disagree with is that "we as TKAs have nothing" statement. We as TKA's deal the most daamage of ANY profession, including Rifle in 9 out of 10 situations. I was master rifle and Master TK. So I am confident in that statement. It was close...
But Like I said, when friends were in trouble, here come the VK's and in I go..
Rayn
If you compare Pistoleer with TKA (or any melee profession), that's a different thing than comparing Pistoleer with other ranged professions (Rifles, Carbines, etc.). A Pistoleer should surpass a Rifleman and a Carbineer in melee range (and in my experience as a Pistoleer I am more successful at close range than Rifleman and Carbineer friends I hunt with). A Pistoleer should not surpass any melee profession at close range.
Remember the key words: ranged weapons and melee weapons. Ranged weapons are intended to be used at range. Melee weapons are intended to be use up close. Ranged professions focus on better success at range. Melee professions focus on better success at melee.
When we hunt animals, we are mostly forced to melee range (unless someone else tanks). This is just the way it is. If you are fighting an animal and start running away from it when it's 20m away you are guaranteed to take it down (eventually) unless you trip, stop running, or are slower than the animal. Melee profs don't have this problem. I hope a melee profession is always more effective at close combat than a ranged profession.
What does this have to do with the weapon issue? Well I guess not much, but in reading posts here I thought of this... AP2/kinetic/3.5 or higher speed is still my idea. Looks too much like a revolver not to be one.
Seekalaei wrote:
Well.
TKAs have one weapon as it stands now. Vibro Knucklers. VKs do Kinetic. Woohoo! Or we can use our bare knuckles.
Pistoleers already have multiple options.Striker does Kinetic, Tangle does Stun, FWG5 does Heat, DX2 does Acid at AP1, Republic doing Energy at AP1.. shall I go on? Let's not forget the Genosian Blaster..
Either way Ter ol' buddy, this is one battle I am not willing to fight. Heck, I could care less about fixing the potential DE-10. What good would it do us if all we can do is spam the same 4 specials?
Fix the goddamn profession, and **edit** the looted crap they give giving us to dissuade from fixing any real issues. Fix the profession, then ask for some love for the DE-10.
However, comparing TKA weapons to Pistols is ludicrous! We as TKAs have nothing. Granted, our profession works pretty well, but one little gift in the RKs isn't going to hurt anyone.
Message Edited by Seekalaei on 04-20-2004 01:05 PM
/tisk tisk. Not to start anything with you an old friend, but......I totally agree about fixing our fing profession first. But since they ignore us begging pleading, ranting, pissing moaning etc, but ohhh lets give them something new. It seems the devs don't give a crap about fixing the old parts of the game from launch, but are hell bent on adding new content. So if that's their plan I have to play the game. Sucky as it is.
Seek, you are Pistoleer, smuggler and TKM if I recall. You have way more firepower and defences then a straight pistoleer. My only combat profession is pistoleer, and I suck. As you well know, fighting and practicing together.
You are correct we do have lots of damage types. But you tell me this. How many of the pistols the game has do you actually use? I use only FWG5, DX2, and RB for PvE and some PvP. I use Geo Sonic for PvP only. So that only 4 pistols and 4 types of damage. Our damage is all we have going for us. Our defences suck against pretty much everything, and you know it. We have no state effects, and with stuff that has many resists, we are sometimes useless.
The TK have that problem, only Kenetic. I was very glad to see a new damage type for them AND AP. That's freaking awesome, cause at something with 100% resist to Kenetic, whats the point other then a meat shield. But different weapons for different situations is about all the ranged types, especailly pistoleer, have to our advantage.
Not to mention one of our available damage types comes from a weapon that pretty much stinks. The striker pistol. Don't even get me started on the tangle pistol and how much it sucks. So from energy, acid, heat, kinetic, stun the only 3 damage types that are REALLY there for a pistoleer to take advantage of are acid, heat( which was nerfed to almost uselessness as well witht he fwg5 nerf some months back, avg fwg5 stats now are 2.4 speed 170 max damage) and energy. Kinetic and Stun are all thats left after that and striker pistols suck and sonic blasters are not a pistol that most pistoleers will ever be able to own. I paid ALOT of money for mine and it took me days to find a smith that had the schem and was willing to sell me one. I spent days in the Geo dungeon to get a schem and not once did one drop. So i spent every credit i had and then some to get a semi decent one at 2.0 speed 130-230 max damage and still have half of the damage taken off right off the top by stun layered armor and even more reduced if they have ranged mitigation.
So that leaves pistoleers just a smidgeon better off than a carbineer, but not really for the most part if stun isnt available to you.
So this supposed diverse damage type bonus we have is non existant and is a fantasy.
Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-21-2004 04:50 PM
Randonb wrote:Nothing to report yet, other than that I've already passed all of this on.
It's looking like we are intended to make up for our lack of AP with a variety of damage types, so I'm not sure how likely an AP2 pistol is in the future. Unfortunately, it's hard to make up for a lack of armor piercing against some high level content no matter what damage type you use. In addition, the developers don't want damage types to become too watered down. We'll see what we can get.
Our current damage types:1) Energy (usually Republic Blaster or Modified Republic Blaster)2) Heat (FWG5 or Featherweight FWG5)3) Acid (DX2)4) Stun (this is iffy.. a decent Tangle is hard to find, and a Geonosian Blaster of any quality is even harder)Some say we have Kinetic. That's technically true, because we have the Striker Pistol. Unfortunately, this pisol is so weak that it's almost impossible to find a target worth using it on.
I still think it would really help us out to move the fwg5 to novice pistoleer and give it AP1. Or modify the featherweight to be like that or something. Devs could say that whatever "company" that manufactures it has developed armor piercing incindiary rounds, so it keeps the heat damage. Makes sense and would provide a nice, fast, damaging weapon for pistoleers to use.
.44 magnum. that is basically ap2.
Tyrael_the_Archangel wrote:
You can't give a freakin' pistol ap2!! It's not very practial nor realistic...even tho this is the future!!
Now, to the DE-10: The problem is, IMHO, the fact that this is an Energy weapon. So basically a Republic blaster that is slow, but has higher damage. Now, if you don't spam specials, then at Master Gunfighter, you will be hitting at the cap, so technically this pistol would be better. Problem is, EVERYBODY spams specials. So, this pistol sucks. You will never see it used by anybody who is paying attention. This weapon NEEDS a different damage type. It is crying out for it. If it did cold damage we would all be lusting after it, planning our trips to the deathwatch bunker a month in advance.
Sadly, it seems likely that I will read the pistoleer boards for a while, and all they will do is complain about how biased the devs are toward TKs...
surreal2000 wrote:
Well, I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. Of course TK's are getting a great addition to the profession, which is sorely needed (another damage type). I know people consider TK's to be overpowered, but being a TKM for a little while, I can tell you there are many disadvantages. The most notably is that if something is 100% kenetic resist, we are 100% screwed. And let me tell you, there is a LOT of stuff out there with very high kenetic resists.
Now, to the DE-10: The problem is, IMHO, the fact that this is an Energy weapon. So basically a Republic blaster that is slow, but has higher damage. Now, if you don't spam specials, then at Master Gunfighter, you will be hitting at the cap, so technically this pistol would be better. Problem is, EVERYBODY spams specials. So, this pistol sucks. You will never see it used by anybody who is paying attention. This weapon NEEDS a different damage type. It is crying out for it. If it did cold damage we would all be lusting after it, planning our trips to the deathwatch bunker a month in advance.
Sadly, it seems likely that I will read the pistoleer boards for a while, and all they will do is complain about how biased the devs are toward TKs...
Better damage then the Republic Blaster? I can say that the three different screen shots of different stats for the DC-10, my RB beet it out in max damage, speed, and of course the RB is AP1. So if the DC-10 is going to stay as it is now, I will have no other reason to get it other then hang on my wall for looks.
And ultimately, what we keep talking about here is the fact that....as is, the DC-10 is worthless and needs to be changed. It is no different, or even equal to anything in the game already. So why bother adding new content that is pointless?
the new knucklers will have heat damage, and they will (if keeping the same stats on test center) be more damaging than current VK's
but keep in mind they take a nightsister vibro unit....... i don't see this weapon being mass-produced or anything. they will mostly be as rare (if not more rare) than the geo pistol
and although our striker pistol DOES suck, keep in mind we are the ONLY ranged profession with kinetic..... and if you dabble in comando, you have access to a blast damage pistol
albeit i do totally agree that if our specials worked (not even considering the borked speed equation) we wouldn't be reallycomplaining much about this, but this will be fixed soon enough
we really can't argue these points until the combat rebalance goes into effect