Pistoleer Archive

neon it comes from pvp players who are the extreme minority in any mmorpg that have been using a working set of skills to take advantage of another set of minority pvpers whoseskills are not working. so being pvpers, instead of figuring out what is actually going on, they whine for nerfs. this happened in UO as well. nothing new there, and what happened in UO the devs there listened to a very small minority of very vocal grief pvpers and the majority who are happily playing the game, both PVP and PVM,had their play ruined by a small unimportant minority. they did this instead of actually addressing the issues to hand. i mean look at what showed up in the wish list... nerf the BH class and give us twirly pistols and holsters instead of fix the skills that are obviously broken.....

more than half of their list consisted of things that were not broken and needed fixing. hopefully the devs see that and do the right thing and ignore calls for nerfs until all the skills work. nerfing working skills in favor of broken PVP is foolish. from what i have read about the new patch that will be out today the devs are on the right track for a change by addressing PVP damage instead of addressing the overall skills that would affect everyone.

"From what i have read about the new patch that will be out today the devs are on the right track for a change by addressing PVP damage instead of addressing the overall skills that would affect everyone."

That sounds like a much more promising way to do the PvP thing... I'm notevenATBH yet, and I'm getting worried that theminority of vocal PvPersare gonna ruineverything...

because you neglected to add the other bonuses, only the bases

In actuality, a pistoleer is more accurate than a bounty hunter standing up and moving, the only area a bounty hunter excels more than a pistoleer is a +1 extra in speed..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................that's it

Caelrie: "And I'm a pistoleer, but I'm an elite combat profession.

You're a bounty hunter, which is a scout hybrid. Right from the devs' mouths. They didn't even include you guys in the pure combat professions."

would like to see where this is posted at.

basically what I have deciphered from this whole issue (and correct me if I am wrong)

Master Bounty Hunter > Master Pistoleer or Master Rifleman or Master Carbineer

Master Bounty Hunter > Master CH/Pistoleer or CH/Rifleman or CH/Carbineer (but not by much)

Master Bounty Hunter > Master Commando (but not by much)

Master Bounty Hunter = Master Commando/Pistoleer or Commando/Rifleman or Commando Rifleman

Master Bounty Hunter= Master Pistoleer/Rifleman or Pistoleer/Carbineer or Carbineer/Rifleman

(if possible) Master Bounty Hunter < (install 2 advance weapon) Commando

in short, A Master Bounty Hunter should (and I stress should with average players on both ends) beat any of the weaponeer classes IF and only if that is their only combat class, BUT if one has spend close to equal or greater skill points on combat professions then they should nearly always defeat the bounty hunters

Now actual knowledge of the profession adds variables in the results such as someone who doesn't know their skills in BH gets beat by a Pistoleer, which should happen if the Pistoleer knows how to use his abilities OR

A Master Bounty Hunter using only pistols will NOT defeat a Master Pistoleer (same with other weapons)

Alas in short, a Bounty Hunter who has viable knowledge of his skills and how to use it, should win a fight if he uses all of his skills, but if he agrees to using only the weapon that he is dueling against (or fighting) then the other class should defeat the bounty hunter

This is the way I believe it should be.........

I am in fact not trying to be "uber" in PVP nor do I mind if anything comes my way that takes me out of the GCW pvp, my only wishes in my class is that those who are unknowledgeable about the big picture don't nerf my class so much as to make it to where I can't do my job (in which it is to acquire my marks be it PC or NPC) if I am hired to kill someone, they should be scared of me, not hand me **edit** cavity back to me to match the one that he just carved UNLESS he is a Master of many combat classes (even then I should have at least a 50/50 chance?

What do you Pistoleers think about this (and please stay constructive, as I am not defrauding youz guyz, please return the favor )

btw, it also has been stated by a dev (don't remember where) that Bounty Hunters will be one of the most formidabble fighters 2nd to jedi, as to where I found it at, I will have to do research, but if you want me to locate it, I'm sure I can find a few BH'ers (who I've noticed are good at weeding out quotes) to grab it

Anywhoo I agree that the Pistoleer should be Much better at Pistols than BH if you look at it like this if you take a Navy Seal he know how to use pretty much all weapons and good at it but if you take a Navy Seal Sniper he is an EXPERT at a Sniper Rifle.

This is a false analogy. A BH would be a Navy Seal and one who spent his 33 points on carbine or pistol would be a Seal AND sniper. A master pistoleer would be a guy who in his off time is a crack shot with a glock. If you look at the fact that being a Seal would be all someone would really do with themselves it does NOT correlate with a pistol which is only a 1/3 of what someone does.

Oh my...

Okay, suppose I become a Master Marksmen and a Master Scout...

Now suppose I choose to be a Pistoleer or Bounty Hunter. We've spent the exact same number skill points, and on exactly the same things, except the P or BH.

Now, I go on to spend the additional 65 skill points on BH which gives me 3 lines relating to combat, or I go on to spend the additional 65 skill points on Pistoleer and get 4 lines relating combat AND all related to Pistol, not Pistol Carbine and Heavy Weapons.

Do you now believe that there is any aspect in which a Bounty Hunter should be better at pistol use than a Pistoleer?

I'm not saying nerf the BH, never have never will, but the Pistoleer should be the master of the pistol in all aspects, not just defense againt stun, blind, etc.

Thanks,

Masisu

PS I don't PvP, but PvP is a fantastic way to see how two (supposedly) combat oriented classes stack up against each other. If its 50/50 then its probably pretty close to being a balanced profession for each other of PvE as well.

On the topic of the whole...XP Vs. Skill points arguement

Correct me if I'm wrong on these two related points.

1: You start with 250 skill points...you do not have to gain 250 skill points...you do not have to huntforever to get 250 skill points. You start with them

2: You do not start with experience. You have to hunt for it. So it takes way more time to gain more experience.

Now admitting those two points are correct, one can reasonably make this arguement

BH takes more skill points, which take no time to gain, and less experience which does take time to gain

Pistoleers take less skill points, but quite a bit more experience.

From those two arguements we can see that a pistoleer takes more time than a bounty hunter to master. That's a pain, but a hardcore player should have no problem with that right? I mean more experience just takes more time. But wait...there's more.

Bounty Hunters only have to master one tree to be about on par with a pistoleer who has mastered all four trees of pistol skill. From this we can see that Pistoleers have to actually play four times as long as a Bounty Hunter to become masters of the pistol.

Now explain to me how it makes sense that a person playing for less time training with multiple weapons should be betterWITH THE PISTOLthan a person who plays for four times as long with justthe pistol.

Yes Pistoleers can dabble. Yes most of us do. If another person lists Pistoleer/commando as powerful I willshoot them in the nads though. Let's all pity the commandos,andnot make anybody think they're worth playing right now.

Pistoleer smuggler is nice, but,if you look at that, it takes almostas many skill points to master smug as it does BHbecause you really need to be at least a novice scout and a novice artisan to be effective (especially if you doslicing andspices).

CH/Pistoleer is neato, except that I get the feeling they're not done nerfing CH's til they go from uberpet classes toringleaders (circus kind, not crime ring kind). Besides that, reduced cost offaction pets kinda makes them an afterthought. Why put so manypoints into a class so you can have a trained animal, when you can just play delivery boy for an hour or two and get your own personal army that requires no training and is perfectly loyal?

Rifle/Pistol or Carbine/Pistol: Close to as strong as BH's used to be (not so sure now), but once again, lotta skill points and hella HELLA lot more xp, which takes time.

any other combos? Pistoleer/Brawler of any kind? Never tried that.

Personally I think the skillpoint Vs. XP arguement is silly. Skillpoints don't take any time, and time is the key. Over time a pistoleer should rock a BH, as should a rifler, carbiner, or any other elite combat class. They have to spend more time, so they should be stronger. Just the way it is.

Devs said that BH would be second only to Jedi before launch and pistoleers, carbineers, etc are pissed about it. Its about that simply. No one ever said they were uber in all aspects of pvp, such as faction battle and such where medics, CH's, etc come into play. In a large faction battle, id put my money on a master pistoleer/medic over a pure BH. Its a complete double standard, if pistoleers only had 33 points left over after mastering their profession, they would demand to be given certain extra abilites in combat, but they will be damned if they let that happen to another class.

Oh for the love of the Holy Mother, Virgin Mary!

Let me spell a few things out for ya:

1. You make me feel like Dark Helmet, surrounded by assholes, yeah all of ya do, every last one of ya.

2. Skill Points are a LIMITED SOURCE, xp is NOT! Time would matter if we were talking months, but we are talking hours, or god forbid days. You are NOT concidering that the BH invest line isdam near impossible. So.... why... heh, don't ya just put a big sign up that says "I AM A HUGE ILLOGICAL MORON!!!" I hate flaming I do, but this guy leaves me no bloody choice, there's no getting through to someone who thinks like this.... Bloody hell.

3. NO Pistoleer here, as far as I can see (save maybe the person already adressed) is calling for BHs to be nerfed! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!?!?!? Jesus, how many times must it be said. All that issue was there for was to set a standard for what we wanted are speed+accuracy bonuses were to do. There are not many threads here saying to nerf BHs, the ones that are here all full of Pistoleers standing up for you. So **edit**! You come over here, and use stereotypical BS, and you expect that you won't get flamed? Expect that no one will actually use logic? God, will you READ the issue, will you READ the posts? This is reallt F'in annoying because I know there are a few logical BHs, I'm just having a hard time finding them.

Ya know what, screw it, I'm done on these forums.

It sucks that i came in here praising pistoleers and giving tons of reason why they are better and the pistoleers still shunned me =P lol

Vandalz

Bounty Hunter

All I wanted to know was where the BH Vs Pistoleer attitude came from!