Pistoleer Archive

Thread: Question about speed; Pistols vs. Rifles.

Kevie
Mon May 31, 2004 4:00 pm
#27






jamesgoddard wrote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*cough*
did you read all of my post?


rifleman have always had +90 speed (and +5 at master) but the first T-21's came out with double digit speeds- until recently (and i don't mean like a week ago), rifleman weren't firing many specials at the cap...... the devs never realized that a T-21 would be crafted and then sliced to 1.5 speed (there's one on eclipse or something)
i also pointed out that loot drops were used also...... in beta not many people killed krayts so there wasn't much in the way of loot to be tested before galaxies went live
also there weren't many master smugglers around to get those +45% slices on weapons


you have to realize that all the speed mods have been in since beta..... it hasn't changed in almost a year and many weaponsmiths are finding ways to make weapons much greater than expected (like those 700+ damage or 0 speedfwg5's)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kevie, you really dont have a clue do you....... The speed of the rifle has not caused this problem!!! Yes there are some very fast loot t21's, but if you gave a master rifleman a choice of a 1.5 second t21 doing 400 max damage and a 6 second t21 doing 500 max damage, he would go for the 6 second weapon because it has a much higher DPS in his hands, why, because he fires them both at speed cap.


Rifleman speed is borked - the calculations are exponential thus is he just purchased +5 speed tape he can fire any weapon, any move at speed cap - even if it was a double digit fire rate.







i never insulted your intelligence, and so far you've just tried to insult mine at every chance you could
i was making a very valid point and i totally sympathize with you (i am a pistoleer after all)


T21's weren't ever supposed to be made with speeds that low (6 seconds, let alone 1.5 seconds) THAT was my point all along.....


the speed equation and speed mods have been put in place since beta and the developers noticed these flaws way back last fall


the combat balance was planned to fix this, among other problems

i never said you were wrong, i was merely making a point.... but every response i got from you was just condescending trash talk





Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see), Kettemoor
There is no command, mood, chat type: smuggle
"#*% damnit, no. Caboose; I'm not cold, I don't want a hotdog, and if you
put mustard in my #&$^ing sheets again I'm gonna kill you." - Tucker
-

Kevie
Mon May 31, 2004 4:01 pm
#28






jamesgoddard wrote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*cough*
did you read all of my post?


rifleman have always had +90 speed (and +5 at master) but the first T-21's came out with double digit speeds- until recently (and i don't mean like a week ago), rifleman weren't firing many specials at the cap...... the devs never realized that a T-21 would be crafted and then sliced to 1.5 speed (there's one on eclipse or something)
i also pointed out that loot drops were used also...... in beta not many people killed krayts so there wasn't much in the way of loot to be tested before galaxies went live
also there weren't many master smugglers around to get those +45% slices on weapons


you have to realize that all the speed mods have been in since beta..... it hasn't changed in almost a year and many weaponsmiths are finding ways to make weapons much greater than expected (like those 700+ damage or 0 speedfwg5's)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kevie, you really dont have a clue do you....... The speed of the rifle has not caused this problem!!! Yes there are some very fast loot t21's, but if you gave a master rifleman a choice of a 1.5 second t21 doing 400 max damage and a 6 second t21 doing 500 max damage, he would go for the 6 second weapon because it has a much higher DPS in his hands, why, because he fires them both at speed cap.


Rifleman speed is borked - the calculations are exponential thus is he just purchased +5 speed tape he can fire any weapon, any move at speed cap - even if it was a double digit fire rate.







i never insulted your intelligence, and so far you've just tried to insult mine at every chance you could
i was making a very valid point and i totally sympathize with you (i am a pistoleer after all)


T21's weren't ever supposed to be made with speeds that low (6 seconds, let alone 1.5 seconds) THAT was my point all along.....


the speed equation and speed mods have been put in place since beta and the developers noticed these flaws way back last fall


the combat balance was planned to fix this, among other problems

i never said you were wrong, i was merely making a point.... but every response i got from you was just condescending trash talk






Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see), Kettemoor
There is no command, mood, chat type: smuggle
"#*% damnit, no. Caboose; I'm not cold, I don't want a hotdog, and if you
put mustard in my #&$^ing sheets again I'm gonna kill you." - Tucker
-

SolarusArc
Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:47 am
#29

Hmmm, interesting point Philo. Perhaps they should make it so that weapons have an accuracy stat that can be adjusted during the crafting process when they are manufactured? Rifles would have a great accuracy stat for standing shots or prone shots but when the attacker moves and tries to hit a target, they would lose 50% of their accuracy, if they were to burst run, they would lose 80% or something to that effect. I always found it funny to see a Bothan running away from a Wookie with a T21 in his hand and hitting the Wookie with every shot.


Does anyone else think that Pistoleers should get a terrain negotiating bonus? We are suppose to be able to perform quick strikes and retreats, it would make sense that we would be able to move quicker when using our weapons than the other classes.








0010111010110100100010001
0101110010111100011001010
1001010011110001001010000
1000011110101110001111101
0001101101000000010101110
1110000101011111111010111
0101010Kypek Streen000011
000110010000010110110111
1100101000-VA-1001100100
0111100000000000111110001
1111010010110110001100110
0101011001000011001110000


RazorBlade79
Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:10 am
#30



Randonb wrote:

Whoops, I think you may have missed my point Kevie. My emphasis was on the last paragraph.

I was attempting to demonstrate that without adequate foresight, working out advantages/disadvantages can go awry, even if they sound good at first. Specifically, if these distinctions are too severe, the profession could potentially run into problems when fighting other players of the same profession.

But yes, I agree that professions are in dire need of distinction between their own roles. It's just a tricky business fitting what people want to be into the "balance paradigm."

Message Edited by Randonb on 05-29-2004 09:47 PM





That happens on TC2 right now, people (jedi) with insane DEFENSE and absolutely low damage output are fighting each other without a way to win. It's fun the first time it happens.



___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Quick fixes to make the game fun now: NPCs using weapons and special attacks, reduced resistances on all except faction armor and percentbased encumbrance, faction armor craftable with improved resistances with limited use schematics from recruiters, no permadeath for faction pets, doc buffs percentbased, fixed BH mission payouts, more imperial crackdown activities, replace SBDs on the corvette with high ranking NPCs, reintroduce a Jedi TEF, reward overt players with improved payouts and faction gains
How to be a successful newbie
Whil Grey #2 #3 #5 #4 #6 - My character's screenshots of the day on SWG.com
WillGrey.cyndera.com
- My homepage

Oceemia
Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:05 am
#31

Rifelman and RL!


RL :

1.) you ll never see a rifelman working alone! (Plz forget all war movies showing rifelman doing so). A rifelman is always backuped by another person, which is not another rifelman!

2.) a rifelman has no defence at all! If you ever get to know the rough postion of a rifelman he is dead (and so is his backup)

3.) if you get closer to a rifelman with his scoped weapon than about20-30 m he has NO chance of hitting you!

4.) even at excellent circumstances his rate of fire is about 4-6 seconds


Ingame :

1.) every rifelman works alone. i never saw one backuped cause there is no need to

2.) rifelman have defences and can even stack them from other professions

3.) rifelman hit you at 0 range

4.) rifelman spam specials every second!


l.g.Oceemia




IGen Armor at DSD Shop Naboo:-4110 3424
12 Point Armorer, R.I.S. Certified
Battle Armor and PSG
Oceemia Giarvess w Witchhunter w Souls Tone w Sindri
FiloBetto
Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:02 am
#32

This is the kind of information that needs to be incorporated into this game. Not just for rifleman, but for all combat professions. Providing these are actual facts. They do make sense.



Philo - Ceteri Fortis
Magic's Shipyard Vendor in Ceteri Prime Mall, POB Parts
Magic's Elite POB Parts vendor in Crystal Oasis, Dantooine -4336 7160
Master 12 point Weapon Engine and Chassis Shipwright

Ypsi - Dark Jedi Oasis
Level 90 Jedi Master/Pudding Maker


JayBurns
Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:52 am
#33

Anothersweet dealthat rifleman have going for them is that AP>AR=50% damage enhancement, which could be considered an exploit, something I'm sure they don't want getting out. Why should this be considered an exploit? Well I did a little serching on the armor rating formula and I found this old fencer FAQ gathering dust:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=fencer&message.id=12599&highlight=armor+piercing#M12599


Basically what that says, is that the damage enhancement that happens when AP>AR was only intended to occur on the armor, not the target.


Regards,


JBurns
Ocaigann
Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:03 pm
#34

If Rifleman just had the lame speed mod that Carbineers had now, and Pistoleers had the speed mods the Rifleman had, I'd be happy.
JawaJoey2
Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:20 pm
#35






Ocaigann wrote:

If Rifleman just had the lame speed mod that Carbineers had now, and Pistoleers had the speed mods the Rifleman had, I'd be happy.






There are plenty of quick fixes that could be done to help, like changing the +6 pistol speed mods to +10 in the stances tree. That would change the 74 at master to 90. But problems would still exist, because the speed equation is inherently flawed. And THAT'S the big change we all are hoping to see in the combat balance. And the Dev's aren't giving us any temporary fixed like these to hold us over until the CB actually comes.






{[]|[[[[[|||||)(|)[[][//################################
Page 3 of 3