Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Wepps resigning from BH Correspondant.
Passion for one's profession is a good thing, and Wepp had that in spades.
But the correspondants need to also be visionaries in the grand scheme of things. Wepp failed in that aspect (as have quite a few of our esteemed volunteers).
Failed in being a visionary? As a correspondent? Without the ability to comment on certain issues, because they were considered taboo and politically incorrect, there was simply no way to get across to development the needs of my community. There truthfully is nothing wrong with my vision of Bounty Hunter, or any profession. The problem is we are so far beyond initialization of these professions that dev hesitates to make changes that are required, because the changes would be so drastic, possibly alienating a large portion of these communities. Taboo subjects include such things as 'PvP balance'. Discussing these issues even in the correspondent forum was theoretically 'bad form'. As a result, DEV makes moves to balance several times a month, with NO FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY TO MOVE ON, and no reasonable feedback to the correspondents before implementing them.
This is one of the reasons I left. I did not like playing thier game, so to speak.
All the combat Correspondants need to work together to get all classes balanced to put the challenge in the game. If the Pistoleer argues that his specials despite looking powerful aren't, the other combat types should get on Test and try it themselves. If the Bounty Hunters feel they have no viable attacks at lower levels, then the same thing should happen.
See? That is exactly what I said, however test center isn't the place for this necessarily for many reasons. One of the issues with that is the fact that our profession, specifically, operates in the 'live server' environment primarily, not test center. Changes are made in test center environment that don't necessarily make it to live, so that place is there to 'head-off' problems. Our problems haven't even been addressed yet on live, let alone TC, so what's the point of fighting in a different environment. One advantage to being in TC is the ability to change your skill levels instantly to anything you want. However, items such as armor, weapons, and you name it can't be generated int eh same manner. As a result, Philosopher has a Master Pistoleer on TC right now that more than likely has a Scout Blaster tops, and no armor.
What is missing from the program right now is not passion. The guys and girls doing the job now have a lot of that, instead it's a sense of the bigger picture. While it's great that Wepp and others fought for their classes, the fact that they make assumptions without walking a mile in the other guys shoes or defend their positions with the same fervor some people reserve for their religion. While the passion is admirable, it ends up messing combat up even more. A cohesive, informed unit will ensure that we have balanced, fun combat sooner than the current Rifle v. Pistoleer v. Bounty Hunter rows that seem to be en vogue.
I was a master Pistoleer in beta. I was also a Smuggler. I tested these as my primary, I know the issues that reside here (assuming nothing has ever been done about them, just like Bounty Hunter). Pistoleer alone is enough to survive in the field. You have all the tools to get the job done, in almost any circumstance. Even with the current broken skill mods. Add to this the ability to fully master 2 other professions, and the power is tremendous that you are CAPABLE OF by use of those skill points. Our profession is so limited in this respect, that every change DEV makes is a kick to the groin that hurts permanently. We have no way to overcome the decisions of DEV team, unlike Pistoleers. A Pistoleer can just...change skills around. We can't.
The post I would love to see the Pistoleer Correspondant make:
"Hey guys, I took a spin with bounty hunter on test for a few hours and I gotta say, they really have a point with (bounty hunter issue) (Correspondant goes on to give reasons)."
In the same vein maybe we could see this post in the Bounty Hunter forum:
"Wow, I never realized how frustrating somebody spamming eye shot at me could be if I wasn't a bounty hunter...."
Being a Bounty Hunter, I only once 'spammed' this attack. It took 5 shots to take the other guy down, at best range and best accuracy mod. Eye Shot has NEVER been the problem for Bounty Hunters. Use it or lose it, basically, we just don't care.
Spamming Eye Shot is a tactic (if you want to call it that) used by those only concentrating on Pistol skills. That means...Pistoleers, who have taken up Bounty Pistols to add power to their attacks.
Bounty Hunters are way too versatile to use low powered attacks like Eye Shot, relying on them solely. We switch out weapons all the time, and change-up our tactics, and our chots. It's how we were designed.
In other words: These guys who represent us (and do a bang up job for the most part) should be encouraged by us (their 'constituents') to be more constructive and less reactionary in order to balance combat sooner rather than having these monthly "OMG We're GETTING FING NERFED!" threads.
Finally, my point was (as correspondent) that we are TIRED OF THE CLOWNS BALANCING THE PIES. We want our bugs fixed.
Fix the bugs first, THEN let's talk balance. It makes no sense to balance something, fix one of the 25 bugs in the skill line, balance it again, fix another bug 3 months from now...
Still, there are no fixes for Bounty Hunters, and we are dammed irritated by that fact. I witnessed you guys get all your defenses doubled this publish, followed immediately by a lot of complaining about doubling broken skill-mods. ABSOLUTELY. I agree with Philosopher1976 on this issue at least. Fix the dammed bugs already, then play with the multiples of balance later. Still, they doubled your defenses! At least that's SOMETHING. If I really didn't apply so much time to my Bounty Hunter, I would have been a Pistoleer again a long time ago as my primary character. I have one as a secondary, but it's not really the same thing.
Don't allow yourself to make statements based upon the misconceptions of the majority of your forum. Your attitude towards me was based entirely upon those that wanted to make a big stink about anything I said, or twist my statements out of proportion. Their abilities to copy-paste here are beyond measure, but they were simply inflaming issues that didn't need to be made worse by Pistoleer invasions of the BH forum.
If you want to get along, learn to control the whiners in here. That would be an excellent start towards a better future for your profession.
No offense Wepps, because you don't seem like a bad guy, but most of your 'ideas' and 'feedback' were very one dimensional and didn't show any sort of forethought into the impact that it would have on other professions. You did more to drum up the whole belief that Bounty Hunters should be some kind of uber gods because we spent 217 skill point mentality that a lot of people posting in the BH Forums seem to have.
Maybe the problem with the correspondant program is that when Thunder gets all these reports there's NOTHING he can do with them because if he acted on them it would imbalance the game.
And BHs aren't the only ones doing this. It's rampant in the game. Nobody wants to look at balance or deviate from these fixed templates.
One final note: If EyeShot wasn't that big a deal and you had plenty of other diverse activities capable of killing people, how come all I see whenever I come up against a Bounty Hunter in PvP is the Eye Shot Spam? Or how come there is extreme bitterness that this has been pushed to Master BH. I mean if it wasn't such a big deal, why the outcry?
Good luck to you Wepps, hopefully the next BH Correspondent will see past asking for X Profession to get nerfed or asking for Medical skills and other little nuggets from other professions and try to find a way to help balance the game.
...and thus my point is proved.
I expect the Bounty Hunter Patrol to be here shortly to 1 star me and call me names.
I would also make this observation. One time, some pistoleer busy disrupting the BH forum announced boldly how there were several BHers over here doing the same thing. A bit childish, but I looked into it. As correspondent I headed over here in the bus hopefully to collect them.
When I found them I noticed some similarities among all 4 of them.
1 - I had never heard of any of them. Their names were not familiar to me.
2 - When I checked, none of them had ever posted on the BH forum.
3 - They only had posts numbering in the teens at most, all of them here in the Pistoleer forum.
Being of sound mind, at that time, I concluded these people were multi-accounters stirring up trouble with no interest whatsoever in what was good for either the Bounty Hunters or the Pistoleers. Just causing trouble, and applying grief to both of us.
There are a lot of losers that play these games, they were in that group.
Personally, I just don't care anymore how you people decide to handle them, or even if you take part yourselves. But even to this day, each and every creative and constructive post in the BH forum has some series of Pistoleers that have to disrupt it. Jaegen88 did nothing to discourage this, neither is Philosopher1976 that I can tell. The difference, I made statements trying to control my people. 'Let's not get hotheaded, what's going on in the Pistoleer forum is none of our business', basically.
The argument on the other end was, if you aren't interested in your own development, why bother distrupting those of other professions?
Just becausethey are **edit**. There can be no other reason. So, after suffering through hundreds of disruptive posts on otherwise good threads, I concluded that the majority of Pistoleers must have nothing better to do, obviously there is nothing to fix, right?
Where is the creativity in here? Other than twirling pistols, and requesting you get scatter pistols as well, has there ever been a unique and creative idea generated in this forum? It's a good question.
And it begins with defining the purpose of the Pistoleer. What is your role? If you wanted to actually role-play your character as a member of the Star Wars Universe, what is it exactly that defines you and focusesyour attention?
The answer: Nothing. The Pistoleer is not an end-game, but a means to an end. It is a method of improving a specific weapons type to the point of being proficient in its use. That's all, nothing more. It enhances all Pistol carrying combat professions, and is an excellent basis to build upon in that weapon type. Other than that, there is no focus for this profession.
Maybe this is where the answer is, in the 'job'. Smugglers know for sure what they were designed for, so do Bounty Hunters. Pistoleers? How do you define yourself? Without hearing the answer I already know. You are proceeding from misconceptions that this is supposed to be a stand-alone profession in combat, and it isn't. That is why youare hearingthese many 'lame' arguments about how many skill points it takes to master, because you can spend those points on anything you choose to be a hybrid of any type.
If your purpose is PvP, thisis the way to go, not Bounty Hunter. You are flexible in your choices, we are solidified into an end-game. We are two entirely different professions, with differing purposes. There is no reason for you to be so overly concerned with what is going on over there that you constantly ignore your own development with any creative ideas whatsoever.
The problem is here, not with Bounty Hunters. You need to focus on something useful for a change, and forget what other people have that you don't.It's like trying to build monuments on a foundation of shifting sand. Nothing is going to work unless the fundamentals are fixed.
As one of the few people who have actually Mastered Bounty Hunter (and then dropped it), I've had a vested interest in several fourms and followed them closely. The Pistoleer vs BH thing has been around since the start, and IMHO, for no reason. We sound like the freaking Hattfields and McCoy's. We fight all the time just to fight. There is no rational in this dispute. A decent number of Pistoleers use BH skills, some BHs use Pistoleer skills. Somehow this alienates the rest of the people?
What Wepps tried to do was control the BH aggression towards Pistoleers. From the activity in the BH fourms it looked like he failed, until you examine the Pistoleer hating posts. Most of them from newbs with no real post history, arguing just to argue. The long time followers (not necessarily posters) understood his approach and agreed with his attempt to unite us, even if we disagreed with his ideas (seriously, med skills in investigaion????).
Overall, Wepps was one of the best coorespondants I've seen (not just BH coorespondant). He had a true passion for his profession, and put up with a disproportionate number ofpersonal attacks from the fourms while VOLUNTEERING his time to help. Kudos Wepps! You are a far more patient person than me.
I think Wepps concentrated too much on pistoleers and not enough on BHs.
Dubious, Master Smuggler, Pistoleer, Naritus
RunemonIV wrote:
here is my take on eye shot
its cheap and realatively easy to use... just press it a few times and whammo someone is cooked no matter what kinda armor they got on thier head eventually you will spam it untill someone dies
no, I will have about 40 action left before I incap someone with a good helm using eyeshot
even tka headstrike which is on the third tier of precision striking and which is combat exp isnt that powerful and it should be but we dont complain about it
god knows there is enough wrong with the game to whine about something freely given to you its not even funny
my only complaint is with the self centered bh's that cry and whine about how thier class isnt viable yet they get the best weapons and the best damage out there besides maybe commando..
Best weapons and best damage don't do **edit** if you can't fight do to having no Def mods.
Pistoleers are better in PvP hands down ..with or without BH pistol
some would argue that tka can out damage a BH and they can if they could only hit one..
3-4-4-4 BH with some of the best BH weapons on my server ..only way I can beat TKA is in a larg battle whereI can attack from range. Never beat a TKA in a duel ..again, no Def mods
but for BH's to come here and whine shows extremely bad taste
Pistoleers are all over the BH boards....
whine on your own forums we got enough problems of our own
Other than Invest bugs we would have no problems to whine about but Pistoleers, AKA "Expert Bounty Hunters" keep getting us nerfed
See Wepps, there is where I fundamentally disagree with you.
Lets move away from the He Said-She Said BH, Pistoleer battle, It's stupid and will never be won by either side.
For some (myself included) a Pistoleer can be a means to an end. It's a graceful and lost art of melee defense mixed in with dead accurate shooting.I do not want to be on the wrong side of the law, hense I'm not a smuggler. I also don't intend on hunting marks and collecting bounties, so I'm not a bounty hunter.
If you want a real life template of whom I've emulated my character on, Check out The Gunslinger by Stephen King. Roland is an arch-type for the pistol profession. His gun is his life. All other skills that he has picked up are minor in his pursuit of perfection in his art. He is a noble character.
He is not a smuggler, with the exception of Han (including Han perhaps) Smugglers aren't driven by noble notions.
He is not a bounty hunter, because he isn't driven by money or the enjoyment of the hunt that bounty hunters seem to crave.
He is a pistoleer, he is a gunslinger. All his other skills, serve as acessories to that. His honour is what drives him and motivates him. Not credits.
Pistoleer is indeed an end game to those who wish it to be. I have Medical Skills higher than my Pistoleer currently and I still consider that second to my Gunslinging tendencies.
I don't want a scatter pistol or bounty hunting skills, but I don't understand why it's classified a pistol and that a profession that is supposed to be the Master of using a pistol isn't capable of using it. Change the classification, keep it as a Bounty Hunter Weapon.
I'm sorry if it appeared to come off as a personal attack Wepps. You're probably a great guy, fiercely loyal to your profession. But that's the problem right there and it's wasn't just with you. Too many people fiercely loyal to their profession and not enough people fiercely loyal to the game. Every Correspondant with an individual agenda makes ideas easy to dismiss. A united front makes the same idea impossible to ignore.
Good luck to you.
Lets not go dumping on Bounty Hunters. Some of their efforts (in my opinion are misguided) but they as a whole are doing what all of us are doing.
I don't know how well the notion of what a bounty hunter entails has been conceived. When I look at a Bounty Hunter, I look at them as sort of the two sport athletes of SWG. Good at two sports but for the most part not great at either. They are masters of the land but aren't rangers, they are master marksmen but aren't king of any weapon. The advantage a Bounty Hunter should have is the intellegence that they bring to the position. As the debate goes, they spend 217 skill points so they should be winning the one on one battles.
Well, you can be trained, but sometimes you can't get past the 10 cent brains of some individuals. Pistoleer is 90 something skill points and compared to a Bounty Hunter it's a One Dimensional profession. But ifa bounty Hunter is going to pull out a Scatter pistol and sit at 20m and shoot at a Master Pistoleer, he shouldn't expect to win. If he hit the pistoleer from 64m out with a rifle, then changed to a pistol to finish the job in close, hey hey that's using your head!
Your Skill Points are the greatest asset that you have in the game and what skills you take are going to directly corrolate to how well your character performs. The Bounty Hunter template is a ready made combat oriented Profession with a great mix of skills across the board. Their real strength come in the fact that they are well balanced across the board. A high mix of scouting and marksmanship skills combined with the skills they undertake as bounty hunters ensures they have no glaring weaknesses. The weakness of the class is just as I said above, they have no super strengths. Call them Jack of All Trades.
I'm hopingthat their investigation line gets fixed so it doesn't seem like such a chore and it's something fun for them. I hope the Jedi bounties at MBH are true because that's a cool feature. Fix that up and let people re-evaluate the value of the Bounty Hunter.
Where I'm not cool is when any class asks for balance destroying changes including unrealistic additions to their own class or uneducated requests of nerfs on other classes.
This is not to say that the Bounty Hunters haven't been unfairly targetted by the same sort of zeal that they have attacked other classes, it's just stating ideally these forums should be used for an expression of ideas not a pit of flames.
Waters wrote:
Quote:
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The problem is here, not with Bounty Hunters. You need to focus on something useful for a change, and forget what other people have that you don't.
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Oh, like BH's trying to get defense mods (that are finally working!) and medical skills?
Yes, there are people (pistoleers included) that want more and more ever! But don't act like BH's are not part of this group, because you know that just isn't true.
BH's need defence Mods, as it stands right now we can not compete with pistoleers or TKA's in PvP.
the first thing a Pistoleer or TKA will do when in range is KD us, Why ? cuz they can just about every time
even If it was just a defence to KD that would be great. and don't give me that "BH's do the most dps" or "have the best weapons" all that don't do **edit** if we are on our backs the hole fight.
and that thing about BH's wanting med skills ? that was dismissed even by the BH community sodrop it already.all we was asking for is the ability to use stims to heal damage. BH's spend alot of time away from any city with a med building so I don't see why this should be a prob with anyone.
You guys should just let this thread drop already.
As for TKA and Pistoleer KDs they only have a 5 to 7 meter range why are you letting them get so close?
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And it begins with defining the purpose of the Pistoleer. What is your role? If you wanted to actually role-play your character as a member of the Star Wars Universe, what is it exactly that defines you and focuses your attention?
The answer: Nothing. The Pistoleer is not an end-game, but a means to an end. It is a method of improving a specific weapons type to the point of being proficient in its use. That's all, nothing more. It enhances all Pistol carrying combat professions, and is an excellent basis to build upon in that weapon type. Other than that, there is no focus for this profession.
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This is the worst comment I could ever read from a person that once was a correspondent!
Just because you're not creative enough to find ways to roleplay a pistoleer, that doesn't mean it's not possible to find a role for a pistoleer.
More, just because there are two clear examples of BH's on the movies and no clear example of pistoleers, that doens't mean you're more important or should be better.
Your definition of end-game doesn't (and shouldn't) have to be the same for every player.
You're so elitist and still believe BH should be uber and has such short sighted view, that I can only say I'm glad you're not a correspondent anymore. Balancing the game is definitely not on your list of priorities.