Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Master Pistol/MBH...where to put the rest of the points?
Thanks for the offer to meet me on test center to experimeent with templates, Nifty. I can relate to your limited available time though, because I can see myself spending most of my game time for the next couple of weeks playing on Kashyyyk now that ROTW is live. I was there this afternoon and had no trouble at all soloing any of the creatures I encountered--though I still have yet to explore many of the areas.
I'll let you know though if I end up with any free time and decide to do some testing. I appreciate it! 
Uthyr wrote:
You have a logical and analytical mind, Nifty--I can definitely relate. The kind of analysis you did on my template options is exactly the kind fo thing I've posted here many times in the past, on other topics, so I read your numbers with great interest.
Anyway, your argument is very convincing. The only trade-off that is making me hestate is that I would theoretically rather have better defenses than have to rely so heavily on healing. Healing isn't going to do much good against a one-shot kill, for example. On the other hand, healing is much more concrete for me to visualize--I just love seeing my health bar regenerate to 100% with a single click, but you never really see exactly what's happening when you add more defenses.
As for your desire to see the devs post a guide on how the mods work, I would be all for that! Somebody actually did post a graph on the Carbineer forum recently on how player speed mods equation looks. I don't know if the graph looks similar for pistols, or for defenses and accuracy, but it's definitely an enlightening graph. Click here to see it.
I'm going to post a question about this on the CM forum too and see what those folks have to recommend.
I'm a software tester, so I gotta have an analytical mind. Not to mention going over the SWG numbers is a nice break from making sure all requirements are mapped to tests. 
Again, I understand completely about giving up those FS skills. If they did get changed somehow to be more useful to a double elite combat master, it would be sad to have lost them!
As for how the numbers affect the high end game, I'm all for some testing on TC-EP3, of course, as soon as I finish my template on Starsider. I'm lvl 70 now, so I'm getting there. Of course, SWG playing time is going to diminish today due to me getting the Ep 3 game for the PS2.
However, if you wanna hop on TC with me some day, we can do some tests with upper end numbers on mobs (or each other)that'd be fine with me. By manipulating the templates with the character builder frogs, we could see the differences in spending the additional 52 points after MP/MBH.
Example. 4/4/0/0 Rifles vs 0/4/0/4 Squad Leader. If we each pick one, get the same pistol and the same rifle (easy to do from the frogs) we can try and see the difference in damage (in terms of DPS and actual output vs creatures and each other) between 205 and 190 gen accuracy and also see the difference between 60 and 75 general speed. We can also see the difference in melee defense of 170 vs 220 against critters.
That's going to be a lot of grinding to get that back!
Uthyr wrote:
Unfortunately, I mis-counted how many skills I needed to drop, and dropped one too many of my hard-earned FS boxes.
Ouch... nasty.
Uthyr wrote:
Thanks Nifty! By the way, you did manage to convince me to drop some FS skills to pick up more Combat Medic. Unfortunately, I mis-counted how many skills I needed to drop, and dropped one too many of my hard-earned FS boxes.
OUCH! hopefully it won't be too bad during the double XP thing. I was earning 9k to 11kxp per kill in a 2 person group last night. I grinded the 1.225 million XP for the BH pistols line inaround 2 hours.So I think that will convert you to about 80k FS xp (combat + pistols)for a good 2 hr group session. 
so you might be able to get it back in around 10 hrs of hard core small group mission grinding (assuming you're talking aboutneeding 350k for a tier 3 FS box.)
As for me. Gonna grind a discipline of SL with pistols, and then respec it over to my CM branch. Not sure if I want 4/0/0/0 or 0/4/0/0 yet.
Yeah, I felt sick to my stomach when I realized what I had done, and had to get away from my computer for a while after that and do something as far removed from SWG as I could imagine. I'm now trying to convince myself that I didn't want that skill box anyway (Melee Defense 3) and that it would be more useful to drop that whole line and put into some other FS line.
I can't decide between those 2 CM branches myself.
averyz wrote:
NayrTreppel wrote:I would go up Squad Leader 0/4/0/4. You get nice general speed, accuracy, and defense.
yes I think with MBH/MP/x4x4-SL you have close to the same defense as a Master Defender.. Plus you can root/intimidate
The problem with smuggler for me is that you can only get one line... So two specials and not nearly as good Speed, Accuracy and definatly defense makes it not worth it to me. Especially when the specials alone aren't that great.
With RM you only get one special. If you get the two lines that give you speed, accuracy and defense, 4400 I believe, you get one special that can be used with the pistol. Conceal shot and all that don't work with it. And while you can transfer to a rifle... Why? I'm a pistoller not a RM. So RM isn't worth it for me.
To compliment MP and MBH I suggest either SL or Carbineer.
With SL you get the maximum defense and speed... 120 speed, 230 acc, 270 melee, 285 ranged.
With Carbineer you get maximum acc plus some nice specials... 105 speed, 250 acc, 245 melee, 260 ranged.
I got MBH MP and 0404 SL... I'm going to respec though later to try Carbineer again. I tried both on TC but wanna try them both again on live to get the full experiance of each. It's basically between defense/speed or accuracy/specials.
BH1978 wrote:
Master Marksman is worth getting.....an extra + for general accuracy and speed. Can't remember exact numbers but they are nice.
After getting MasterMarksman my Scatter pistols DPS went up 15-20 points.Message Edited by BH1978 on 05-04-2005 05:27 PM
Your DPS went up due to the general ranged speed bonuses from MM. Your speed went from 60 to 75.
You get the same speed with SL 0404, 5 more accuracy, and a LOT more defense. Not to mention some helpful group skills such as Rally, Steadyaim, and Retreat.
I just respecced from MBH/MP/Carb 0440 to MBH/MP/SL 0404 last night. I prefer the carb trees for PvE as I'm really missing the Snare from Crippling Shot, and the damage that Leg Shot does. Not to mention that Charge Shot does a lot more damage to the target than Underhand Shot does. I haven't tested the SL template in PvP yet, so I can't make a call on whether the increase in defenses and speed, and the decrease in accuracy, will make a difference or not.
The CM 0400 idea is something I was thinking about also...but I'll have to see about that.
With 0440 Carbine I love the snare and leg shot... Though leg shot does just as much damage as my other skills, it's nice to have it. But the snare is great, especially in pve.
Personally though... I'd rather have the +15 speed and greater defense with group bonuses from SL than the two specials and higher accuracy from Carbineer. My only concern though is that we still don't know whats going to happen with the downgrade.
I don't want to stick with 0404 SL just for it to become worse or for carbine to get better, or to stick with carbineer just for them to nerf something causing me to go back to SL. Though going from Carbine to SL will be easier than going from SL to carbine.
I'm really not sure on which to get. After trying both on live they each have their own pros and cons. But with SL... I don't want to later find out that all extra defense does nothing. In PvE I get hit for just as much without the defense.
SL gets you the 120 speed and alot of defense but that is it... Rally is either useless or bugged -- I see no difference in combat when using it. On my character sheet rally only boosts my accuracy to 260, I thought it was supposed to add defense. It also only lasts 30 seconds and the timer on it is way too long to use it often.
Volley fire is nice. Volley fire alone would make me choose SL over Carbine but volley has too long of a timer. Last night I was running around solo on Kasshyk doing some quests and it would take 2-3 single kills for volley to recharge -- Not worth using. It's okay in a situation where you need to pull all your moves out but I'm looking for moves I can use regulary.
Carbineer on the other hand gets me a snare that I don't have. I really like that snare. I also get leg shot which is just as good as critical and torso shot but just another high powered move to add to my selections.
I don't mind not having the defense either as I don't see any difference. We don't know how defense works and I see no difference with or without that extra defense. The only thing I really dislike about Carbine instead of SL is I'm short 15 speed. But the extra accuracy makes up for it, I guess. 250 acc instead of 230 -- Though I get 260 with rally but it only lasts so long and the timer is way long.
Anyway... I'm respecing back to Carbineer. It seems to be the most beneficial. At a later time if they either fix Rally or lower the cool down, same with volley, or we find out how defense REALLY works and we do benefit from the extra defense, I can easily switch from Carbineer to SL. Something that won't be so easy the other way around.
Also, the extra accuracy for Carbine alone is nice seeing how as a MBH/MP I am better off using a carbine than pistol.
I LOVE /sysgroupmsg
I personally think the ability to coordinate your team is easily worth a few points of accuracy or speed from another profession!!!
i agree, I am torn between the two: MBH MP with either Carb 0440 or SL 0404. The above post sums it up perfectly...I hope that we can get some solid information before the respec period ends. Keep this thread alive and see if we can't get some quality response in the next few days.
Thanks, LL