Pistoleer Archive
Thread: How to not die from Fencers Stun Batons?
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Ischaria
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:13 pm
#14
I don't understand how people can not wear full comp, I know this is going OT but seriously, it may work in PvE but in PvP in no longer works, believe me 
Duelling a master sworsdman the other day wearing the chest/pants/gloves/helmet combo the othe day using me trusty stun baton (oooo fencer/pistoleer, the horror 
) and I was seeing 300+ damage popping up over his head coming from his arms and legs, so wear full comp in PvP or someone will rip you a new one 
Duelling a master sworsdman the other day wearing the chest/pants/gloves/helmet combo the othe day using me trusty stun baton (oooo fencer/pistoleer, the horror ) and I was seeing 300+ damage popping up over his head coming from his arms and legs, so wear full comp in PvP or someone will rip you a new one 
Nemo' - General n00b
Wild__Bill
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:41 am
#15
TieWalker wrote:
the proble is scatterhit2 hits the chest, legs, head, and arms. While u can stun layer the chest, legs and head i've never seen stun layered biceps/bracers
You know not what you speak of! I have 2 full sets of stun comp armor. One at 28% stun the other at 39% stun. These are full sets of stun composite coverage from head to toe.
GoodToTheTouch
Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:54 am
#16
fencers currently have a damage multiplier against us, so they can hit us for like 1000 damage, we are only capable of like 510-600 with a geo thats at 340...... with neither wearing armor....
they also hit the mind, a lot more often then we do, last ditch is the only useful specail, and low blow, basicly
I got no idea how to kill a fencer/doc, other then a 30 minute kiting duel
they also hit the mind, a lot more often then we do, last ditch is the only useful specail, and low blow, basicly
I got no idea how to kill a fencer/doc, other then a 30 minute kiting duel
gibsonSG
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:58 am
#17
Got a fencer/swordsman yesterday in a long duel with, and then, without armour. I'm Master Pistoleer, TKM, Master Smuggler. I used specials from TK/Smuggler (intimidate macro and last ditch to get stun and intimidate on him)I also used a lunge dizzy/blind macro to keep him on the ground. Once he was on the ground I had to dance with my Geo and got his mind in the end.
After he asked to duel again without armour, I obliged again dizzylunged, intimidate,unarmedhit3, last ditch for stun and used healthshot2 to finish him off. Without complimentary profs to lay states on him, I would have been too slow to take him with my speed currently at 74. This was after scatterhit2 had been changed so its nice to know that stun batons won't necessarily get you all the time, especially with stun armor,psg and a bellyfull of synthsteak,aircake and mind foods.
Without any melee prof to stick intimidate and some method of applying stun, kite your ass off I'd say. As for doc/fencers what about keeping applying states to make him heal them, thereby occupying him while he cures states and heals, use any dot weapons too to keep him busy and hopefully wait for his mind to go a little? then run cause they'llhave no, or little, terrain negotiation..any thoughts?
Radagast
Radiant
IlychUlyanov
Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:46 am
#18
Fencer is a hard kill because we both have some nice dodge skills. I'm still working on how to beat them. However something I've noticed is that the mind is the worst part about them since they do their scatterhit and will hit all parts of the body at once (although for less damage now that they've unbugged it). You're getting your mind up to 3.8K which is ok. Mine is normally 4K+ depending on how good the Vercupti is that day, but the key thing here is to not take two brandys. You may say, but I need them or I die. Blue milk is your friend. You can pop a Vercupti +1K mind buff +1K (dancer) muscian buff +900 secondaries, and either another vercupti if they are 50 fill or less for +1K mind or a canape and one brandy +400 all. Total of my base mind is 1100 add it all together and you get 4500 average mind and you still have 50 fill of stomach open for drink.
This will let you quaff two blue milk on average over the course of the fight if it's an average fill of 28. This will heal your mind for normally around 600 so 1200 for the mind. This will give you for the space of about 7-8 minutes a mind of 5700. Plus your Health and Action are boosted by around 2K if you can get some double buff vercupti.
Now this being said, your substats are reliing totally on that one brandy and your musician buffs. So your specials get taken up some. You can also always take the wonderful spice thats available for another quick mind buff after your vercupti starts wearing off. So make it for a nice round total of about 6K mind average for about 12 minutes or so if you time it all right. As for beating fencers, gotta wear down their mind cause they are probally doc's too. If they aren't then bleed and kite the heck outa them...
This will let you quaff two blue milk on average over the course of the fight if it's an average fill of 28. This will heal your mind for normally around 600 so 1200 for the mind. This will give you for the space of about 7-8 minutes a mind of 5700. Plus your Health and Action are boosted by around 2K if you can get some double buff vercupti.
Now this being said, your substats are reliing totally on that one brandy and your musician buffs. So your specials get taken up some. You can also always take the wonderful spice thats available for another quick mind buff after your vercupti starts wearing off. So make it for a nice round total of about 6K mind average for about 12 minutes or so if you time it all right. As for beating fencers, gotta wear down their mind cause they are probally doc's too. If they aren't then bleed and kite the heck outa them...
BloodMonk
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:47 am
#19
damn forum
Message Edited by BloodMonk on 07-13-2004 12:01 PM
BloodMonk
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:55 am
#20
bah, I tend to use vercupti in very specific cases, usually unbuffed...
on arisha, brandy and canape I get min mind to 2.4K at the lowest (brandy cycling half the time 2.4, other half 2.8)
substats are always AT LEAST 3K when I fight...My mind regen is so high you need to put in massive damage to kill me (or toss dirty poisons or disease). the enc on my armor is about 700 alround...and I still have no problem getting it over 3k
If you have brawler always intimidate
Take accuracy food
if they have no doc keep em intimidated, lastditch (if you have it) till you stun em....them blast him to hell with healthshot2
this tactic takes out non doc fencers easy
for fencer/doc's (very very though opponents)
again take acc food
I run a macro: /intimidate;/intimidate;/lastditch;/lastditch;/lastditch NOT LOOPING
almost all doc's who pvp have a cure intimidate macro running....once they shut it off only LD (and still keep em intimidated)
if you see em curing run the macro again.
For the guys that wanted 5k mind but relied on 1 brandy for subs: check out thusterhead 8m duration +600min +200 focus in stead of muon
In general, if it comes down to having to take blue milk I'm a goner soon anyway....
sly
MetallicaJunkie
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:37 pm
#21
dorsai78664 wrote:
The best defense against a fencer of course is to kite. Although the geo pistol is very effective, keep in mind the range is only 48m. That gives you only a 20-30m buffer to be out of lunge2 range of a master brawler. You might consider using something like the republic blaster or DX2 because of the AP combined with the longer range for kiting. Even with high level comp armor, you can kill a fencer with a republic blaster if you stay out of his attack range.
Message Edited by dorsai78664 on 07-10-2004 06:05 PM
The rest of the points made in this post were good advice but I must highlight this section for the good of pistoleers everywhere. ARMOUR PIERCING DOES NOT APPLY TO PvP, I don't know how many more times I have to post this without giving it it's own thread. Armour piercing went out of PvP back in november or something when they added the PvP damage reductions, and besides, if you look at the math he's no way killing a fencer with a republic.
Sliced and powered a Republic might reach what, 90-340 damage? Well, let's say he's speed capped and stoppingshot is a viable move for him, that's a x5 multiplier after his output bonus giving him a min/max pre-reduction damage range of 675-2550, most PvP armour carries at least 80% protection to energy, so let's factor that in 135-510, and then the 75% PvP reduction and, oh dear, you're hitting a fencer for about 150 damage with stoppingshot, with his 3k hams it'll take you all day, a geo blaster will dotriple that max and double the min.If you use a repulic, you'd die long before he does, remember that most melee professions have capped ranged defence and we only have 95 accuracy at master without taking BH, and only 65 while moving (-60 for running and a +30 mod for accuracy while moving) you ain't gonna be hitting a fencer too often at just master, and if you do hit, he's more likely to dodge you than you are to dodge him.
PS - I have noticed an additional damage output bonus that is in some way attached to weapon accuracy mods, I hope with further testing to figure out how much more damage we get with extra accuracy, but I have a lot on my plate with regards to combat testing right now. I'll try to get round to it for you guys asap and see what I can find out
GoodToTheTouch
Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:53 pm
#22
I duel and pvp against people with 340 batons that hit for 700-1000 against ranged targets before armor and stuff
healthshot2 does almost zero damage...... infact one lastditch does twice the damage so if you hit action once inbetween hitting health you're still doing more.....
With a 340 pistol, this is how it works out, 340x6(lastditch)x.25(pvp reduction)x.5(no AP for geo)x.62(against 38% stun)x.56(44% psg) = 88 damage a second if your speed capped (I am) after psg is broke its 158 damage,
against 33% synthstake with psg its 58
against 33% synthstake without psg its 105
now if a fencer hits me for 1000, lets calculate this
1000x.5x.62x.56 (against me with psg) 173
with out psg 1000x.5x.62 is 310
with 33% synthstake against me with psg its 115
with 33% synthstake with no psg its 207
they do double the damage, here look at this, 340 stun baton, 340x4x.25=340, thats with pvp reduction, so 1000/340= 3x multiplier against ranged people
now think about this, I've got 20% melee damage reduction from melee mitigation 1 in smuggler, so
with psg 138
without 248
with psg and sythnstake 92
without psg and synthstake 165
if I had melee mitigation 2, 40% it'd be
103
186
69
124
with a 60% psg and melee mitigation 2, it'd be 99, with synthstake it'd be 66
Based on this information I think the only solution is we need melee mitigation 2, with that and out high stats they'll never bring us down, unless we are KD'd, which would be 198 or with synthstake 132, with synthstake even KD'd they'd never kill us
the trick here I think is synthstake is essential, which makes for a goofy scenerio as they don't last long, I guess we better pack psgs and KD food, as long as we have 60% psgs and 38% stun armor, and melee mitigation 2, they may not even be able to kill us.....
btw I'll make a new post about this
healthshot2 does almost zero damage...... infact one lastditch does twice the damage so if you hit action once inbetween hitting health you're still doing more.....
With a 340 pistol, this is how it works out, 340x6(lastditch)x.25(pvp reduction)x.5(no AP for geo)x.62(against 38% stun)x.56(44% psg) = 88 damage a second if your speed capped (I am) after psg is broke its 158 damage,
against 33% synthstake with psg its 58
against 33% synthstake without psg its 105
now if a fencer hits me for 1000, lets calculate this
1000x.5x.62x.56 (against me with psg) 173
with out psg 1000x.5x.62 is 310
with 33% synthstake against me with psg its 115
with 33% synthstake with no psg its 207
they do double the damage, here look at this, 340 stun baton, 340x4x.25=340, thats with pvp reduction, so 1000/340= 3x multiplier against ranged people
now think about this, I've got 20% melee damage reduction from melee mitigation 1 in smuggler, so
with psg 138
without 248
with psg and sythnstake 92
without psg and synthstake 165
if I had melee mitigation 2, 40% it'd be
103
186
69
124
with a 60% psg and melee mitigation 2, it'd be 99, with synthstake it'd be 66
Based on this information I think the only solution is we need melee mitigation 2, with that and out high stats they'll never bring us down, unless we are KD'd, which would be 198 or with synthstake 132, with synthstake even KD'd they'd never kill us
the trick here I think is synthstake is essential, which makes for a goofy scenerio as they don't last long, I guess we better pack psgs and KD food, as long as we have 60% psgs and 38% stun armor, and melee mitigation 2, they may not even be able to kill us.....
btw I'll make a new post about this
Rathask
Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:06 am
#23
TieWalker wrote:
the proble is scatterhit2 hits the chest, legs, head, and arms. While u can stun layer the chest, legs and head i've never seen stun layered biceps/bracers
They've got 'em on Shadowfire. I've got a full suit of 80%+ base, 72% electricity, and 40% stun. Then I throw on the 46% PSG and go to town...and still get owned. Heh. Krayt Sonicpowered-up to1.8 speed and 370 damage or Krayt Rep powered up to 1.9 speed and 375 damage does absoltuley nothing. Even using swordsman and a 418 damage scythe or a 606 damage hammer I can't hit for noticeable damage. Armor stops most of the damage, and stacker defenses stop the rest.
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