Pistoleer Archive

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Chaimera wrote:

Sorry, sounded to me like you said he using the new mods.

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Philosopher, congrats on getting your correspondent thingy, however, there are two things thatmight make your complaint baseless:

1. One of the developers mentioned this to the Fencer correspondent on the Correspondent forum: "Some adverse anomalieshave been discovered in the Fencer "non-counterattack" defenses (like Dodge and such), and are being investigated to find the best solution." So this means there is at least a chance that they are actually fixing dodge as well as boosting it.


2. Last time I tried knockdown, if the target resisted the KD, then the 30-second immunity timer would be triggered.If this is still the case, then spamming knockdown against someone won't help (for 30 seconds at least).

Philosopher,

You mentioned that you think KD defensive mods are not working correctly. Could we get one of your tests done on it? Try to Pistolwhip somebody with Pistol Technique IV, out of 100 times see how often they resist. I know it is resistedmany times by people I am fighting. Then test it against somebody with no KD defense, they go down every time. I'd love to have an improvement in that arena.

Also, it seems like dodge works better in PvE situations. Has anyone noticed that? I love the way it looks when you have a successful dodge, but I rarely see it in PvP.

The melee defense helps out a lot as well, there's no way I could turn away these changes.

I like your Blind effect test, did you screenshot the spam by chance? I'd like to know exactly what happens there to our defensive mods. In the SWG Guidebook, it says that the Blind effect causes penalties to both offense and defense. Whenever I check my combat spam after getting hit by eyeshot, the first couple of hits I take are always the lowest dmg. Often times they start out in the 200 range and jump as high as mid-400s. It's even noticable if you're keeping an eye on your mind bar... the last 30-50% of your bar disappears much quicker than the rest of it. Makes it really difficult to time the Zabrak Equilibrium right

If a fight begins with less than <20m between myself and the BH, I have a pretty effective set of macros to neutralize them. I actually like it better if they spam eyeshot in those situations, more chance of survival than if you get laid out KD/dizzy. My offense is pure Pistoleer, with some specials from the Ranged Support tree under Marksman.

open with a macro like this(assuming Master Pistoleer speed):

/suppressionfire1;
/fanshot;
/fanshot

Hopefully you are able to close the distance from the BH before those 3 shots are done, otherwise it will be difficult to win. If they are a dabbler many times they will resist the posture change (down) of Suppression Fire, and it will be difficult to catch up to them for the 2nd macro:

/pistolmeleedefense1;
/stoppingshot

If you are successful with both Suppression and Pistol Whip, then even a buffed and armored BH will be severely damaged at this point.. without buffs and armor they are incapped. I realize that being blind makes it difficult to land some of these specials, but having those 2 macros set up will make things easier. If the Pistolwhip works, fire a 2nd stopping shot at them. I don't include that in the macro, because if it doesn't work you need to have some room to attempt it again.

A Master Gunfighter should be able to get those shots off in 5 seconds, and at least 3 of those seconds the BH is unable to fire back (assuming everything works). This is the only way I have been able to survive without picking up Dirty Fighting.

Okay guys, I hear you loud and clear. I'm going to get on TestCenter tonight and try to run some tests on Dodge, Defense v. Knockdown, as well as the (nerfed) FanShot.

I can't promise that I'll get results up here tonight or tomorrow, because I'm also trying to write the "State of the Profession" post. But I'll get to this as soon as I can.

Ok guys, I made my character on TestCenter but I haven't been able to getCorrespondent access on there yet. I'm also having trouble finding a Weaponsmith.

I'll contact the Devs to get Correspondent access on TC ... my guess is that it will be a day or two before I'm able to test anything.

Fallout, obviously you are correct that each KD attempt would be resisted with 50% probability if you had enough def vs. KD.

But maybe you are rusty on probabilities... If I shoot a KD at you 3 times in a row, the chances of you resisting all of those KDs is (0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5) = 12.5% so his point is that in the face of KD spam (which is the typical scenario versus all KD classes assuming they are doctor buffed) defenses to KD are very dubious because even if one of those KDs hit, its game over.

Fallout,

Philosopher is volunteeringtons ofhis time to help US out. If this is something you can'tcomprehend or appreciate, then you should seek therapy. He was 100% correct with his Dodge numbers, you just didn't get it.

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Philosopher1976 wrote:

Here's an example. Let's say that someone is spamming knockdown against you, and Defense vs Knockdown reduces your chances of getting knocked down by 50% (best case scenario). You have a 75% chance of being knocked down by the second hit and a 87.5% chance of getting knocked down by the third hit. By the fourth hit, you will be knocked down 93.75% of the time.

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*KD numbers I meant to say in my last post.

Here you can plainly see Philosopheris talking about probabilities. Assuming 4 consecutive KD shots, there is a 93.75% probability that you will have been KD'd at least once, also assuming 50% chance per shot. He's not saying that if you by some grace of god don't get KD'd by the first 3 shots, that the 4th shot isolated alone will somehow mutate into a 93.75% chance of being KD'd.

Phil, don't worry to much about our defensive skills. If I have learned anything about the dabbler's...sorry...Pistoleer profession, is that once the Dev's give us something, they'll take it away within a month's time. In all honesty, the Dev's do not like Pistoleer because we are, whether we like it or not, a dabbler's profession. They have posted more then once on other profession boards that if they wanted to increase their speed or defenses or if they wanted to use specials with their class weapon (commando board for that one), they can take up pistoleer, because that is what we are, a dabbler's retreat, NOT a profession.

They told us that they where going to either increase our speed or lower the speed mod from master down to lower boxes so we can cap speed earlier and use our specials earlier instead of having to use marksman special's till we hit master. On this same thread they also told us that they'll be lowering our speed cap to 0.5 Second and raising rifleman to 3 seconds. Non of this has happened because Rifleman is a real profession, while we are a dabbler's profession. I'm still trying to figure out how Holo (or was it Q?) can say that Rifleman are to fast and should not shoot faster then a pistoleer then on this patch they are increasing the rifleman's speed. Don't you love how the dev's contradict themselves?

Our defenses do not work. I dodge the same amount now as I did day one. If our defense is +30, then we should be able to notice 30 dodge's out of 100, 30%. If we get a dodge of 50 then we should notice ourselves dodging every other shot, 50%. If my dodge is raised to 105, I expect to dodge everything at me. If you say this can't be, then I'll ask you why not if a rifleman can shoot faster then a pistoleer? Once you answer that then answer this one, why not since pistoleer's have the second to worse gun in the game (second to worse from the CDEF)?

As it stands, a true pistoleer can shot his special SLOWER then any other true profession. We can shot Stopping shot once every 2 seconds with a 1.0 speed pistol while Rifleman can shot their best special once every 1 second with a 7.0 delay, 750 damage weapon. I haven't checked the number's but I also believe that all other true professions have more accuracy then we do (accuracy while moving does not stack with accuracy, so stop saying that!). And all other professions that can use a pistol have better pistol's then us.

BH have a better pistol then an Elite Pistoleer

Commando have a better pistol then an Elite Pistoleer

Smuggler has better Pistol specials then an Elite Pistoleer

BH have better pistol specials then an Elite Pistoleer

Smuggler/BH pistol specials WORK, Pistoleer only has one special that works as intended (Bleed2, and I shouldn't have said which cause the Dev's will nerf that next!)

Must I continue with the list? As my first paragraph stated, We are the pistol user's haven. The Dabbler's profession. We are neither equal to others nor are we subpar. We have the extra minor skills needed by other professions to complete their own template. This is the reason why we will not be fixed. This is the reason why all of the promises given to us has been broken. And this is why the dev's work on every one elses profesion before they will even look our way unless it's to release some frustration with a nerf bat! The truth hurts, but honestly, we know it to be the truth, and I have grown to accept it already.

One thing that may be overlooked in all of the testing by both players and Devs is the fact that in addition to increasing the Dodge and Defense numbers for many classes, they have also increased the Accuracy of most of those same classes.

Wouldn't these two changes basically cancel each other out?

Oh, yes I am a Bounty Hunter. Forgive me for posting in your forums.

Looking forward to hear Philosopher's report on the test center Dodge mods.

One question I have though: Why does it matter if we're a 'dabbler's' profession rather than a 'true' profession? Aren't they all? I only have one mastery and then because it was a prequisite to an Elite profession. My character has skills from several elite and hybrid skill trees. In fact, mostprofessions have particular branches that can be useful to nonmasters. Last I checked that was the point of a skill based MMORPG. Is this just because folks are used to maxing out in linear 'character classes' from other games or is there a real reason that folks should just stick to one class andshrilly lobby for it rather than simply picking out the skills they want from a variety of classes?

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OddjobXL wrote:

One question I have though: Why does it matter if we're a 'dabbler's' profession rather than a 'true' profession? Aren't they all?

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It does matter more then people care to see. hmm, trying to figure a way to explain it in a short paragraph

If you have a profession, such as rifleman, where there cannot be any dabbler's in it, it is much easier to balance this profession out because there are no 'outside' influences changing the number's or the professions capabilities. If you where to balance Pistoleer in the same manner as you would rifleman, could you imagine how overpowered a pistoleer/bounty hunter/commando/smuggler would be? We will not have the full advantage of a complete profession but we'll have the full power of two. In essence, SOE knows this. Rather then fixing the issue's, they lower the capabilities of the Pistoleer profession (dabbler's profession) to prevent the other profession from becoming to overpowered. So the ones that pay the price is the true pistoleer that do not wish to follow any other combat course.

Carbineer's are also feeling a bit of what we are, but they do not have to worry as much as we do since only one other profession uses their weapon. Which might be the reason why they have more 'working' specials then we do. I hope I explained it ok.