Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The New Defensive Mods Not So Great
Southern Fried
I have no idea why they get so much, unless it's to compensate for a potential speed change down the line, but as all of you know the Devs haven't mentioned anything about speed since we bugged them a month or two ago.
You need to play a rifleman to appreciate the accuracy changes. Rifles have a very tight accuracy window. Take the laser rifle for example. It's got great acurracy at 60m. Then it's like -60 at 64m. Basically you move one tiny bit away from its optimal range and you might as well be holding a pistol in your hand ... except the weapon speed is slower and you use more HAM on specials.
It's a big ball of craptastic.
My opinion is that rifleman should have gotten more accuracy bonuses.
I'll only comment on what I know. The rest of your stuff sounds reasonable though.
Noules pretty much proved the reason that pistoleers have what seems to be insane accuracy. That their specials have insanely high built in accuracy modifiers. So you could hit pretty much from any range while rifle couldnt hit anything inside of 30m. The accuracy addition looks like the balance to that, where instead of nerfing pistol special accuracy modifier, they brought the others up (carbine got a boost also). Personally, I would rather see them nerf one class instead of trying to pump up two, buts thats me.
Aim, I'm still trying to figure out why my class has /aim modifiers when you can go to master rifleman and never have the aim ability (its ranged support one). But this really doesnt do to much, they could take it out and no one would ever notice.
Ranged Defense. Who knows. Maybe to cement our supposed superior long range class, but in reality your guess is as good as mine.
Melee Defense. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA. Let me think about that again. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This means absolutely nothing to us. What we dodge the first hit an extra 3% of the time. Believe me, we are still dying on the second hit. 
My views always differ from yours of course, just giving you the rifleman point of view, so no need to debate this. Though Samra, you're right, the stuff you are getting is more just a bone instead of the meat.
Tilen
Philosopher1976 said:
"...Oh come on Tanks ... let's be honest here. First of all, you're not really using a DH17 -- you're using a Laser Carbine, like everyone else.
And if you can't spam knockdowns, then you're not being very smart ... I hunt with a Master Carbineer who spams knockdown constantly without a problem due to buffs"
Well, I do use a DH17 in PvP for 2 reasons, one is the HAM cost (if food was fixed...), the second, most important, is the speed, a Master carbineer gets all kind of speed bonusus. If I use a laser carbine I shoot once every 2 seconds, with a DH17 I am shooting once a second. I use a carbine for state changes anyway and the damage is incidental, it would be nice to get decent damage though, and the DH17 is a good compromise over CDEF .
The new defense mods are honestly too much...
You see Phil, your still thinking of a class based system, not giving any thought to the fact that you have enough skill points left over to grab loads of other skills...
Look at the template I built on test center...
Master Pistoleer+TKA 0304+Fencer 4,4,4,0....Medic 2,2,0,0
Defense vs. Blind +90
Defense vs. Dizzy +85
Defense vs. Intimidate +20
Defense vs. Knockdown +120
Defense vs. Posture Change +100
Defense vs. Stun +55
Meelee defense +136
Ranged defense +159
Dodge +195
Now consider this, lets take you for example...Master pistoleer+BH pistol 4....+155 Accuracy...
Now in the accuracy formula its its a base .66 chance to hit...
Then its affected by your accuracy, - your oponents ranged defense....In the formula they are even 1 accuracy=1 ranged defense....
So this template, against the oh so oober BH+pistoleer template will actually nullify all your accuracy...
Ok so the best pistol user in the game has a 66% chance to hit this guy, but thats not all!....
As you stated +30 dodge is around 2%......but this template has 6 and a half times that dodge rate....
So 13% of all atacks will be nullified.....
So lets take another look at it....
If I fire 100 attacks at this person....33 will miss.
Of those 66 that are left 9 will be dodged...
You now have a 57% chance to hit this person in combat.....Remember, you are the best pistoleer that can ever be (most accuracy possible)
Not to mention he has +80-+100 defneses against all your state effects...
I wont even go into how hard it would be for a pistoleer without BH pistol skills to take this joker out...
It gets better if you replace master pistoleer with master riflemen +190 ranged defense is kind of funny
BTW to summerize...
You all really need to start looking at these changes with a bigger picture in mind, The power of your tree is not in its self, but in its ability to stack with other trees...
If this patch goes live, the pistoleer will be stackable with so mnay powerful comboes it will not even be funny...
This change is a freaking god send for the pistoleers......How can you even sit there straight faced and say "Its not really that good"...
Just the stacking of these new defense mods makes them godly.......
I agree the DH17 is nice, but what speed bonuses? A Master Carbineer ends up with +60 speed, which is the lowest of the three elite ranged classes. I noticed that you have BH carbine 4, which means you have what, +80 speed?
Tanks:
Well, I do use a DH17 in PvP for 2 reasons, one is the HAM cost (if food was fixed...), the second, most important, is the speed, a Master carbineer gets all kind of speed bonusus
Taewyn wrote:
BTW to summerize...
You all really need to start looking at these changes with a bigger picture in mind, The power of your tree is not in its self, but in its ability to stack with other trees...
If this patch goes live, the pistoleer will be stackable with so mnay powerful comboes it will not even be funny...
This change is a freaking god send for the pistoleers......How can you even sit there straight faced and say "Its not really that good"...
Just the stacking of these new defense mods makes them godly.......
Sorry, I don't think that Pistoleer's defenses should be useless unless you grab other professions as well. Obviously, I think it's great if people want to master TKA as well as master Pistoleer. Just like I think it's great if people want to get Smuggler or Commando or BH as well as Pistoleer. But our class shouldn't be useless UNLESS you get those other skills. All of those other classes are useful on their own but just become better when combined with other classes. That's how ours should be too.
So I think we should get something useful on its own, not useless. It's fine if people want to make it even better by mastering something else, but it should at least be somewhat helpful to the Master Pistoleer who isn't a Master TKA as well. We can't all be TKAs or Fencers.
And if they made the pistoleer tree into a class that was already strong on its own (not that it isnt now), what would happen when itbecomes paired to another class?
The tree must be designed with the though in mind that you will be spending those 158 points somewhere else. If those points are spent correctly, even before this change goes live, the pistoleer is perhaps one of the most powerful professions in game.
lol think of it like this...In the pistoleer mastery box there is a skill called Dabble power when you get this skill you get 158 points to spend in whatever you want lol .
You can not balance things with just your class in mind, you have to look at it from a skill point perspective....If they made each class extreamly good on thier own, then when it was paired to another combat class it would become too powerful. So they must design all the classes with the thought that people ae going to dabble in order to grab other skills which stack with thier current skills....
Taewyn wrote:
And if they made the pistoleer tree into a class that was already strong on its own (not that it isnt now), what would happen when itbecomes paired to another class?
The tree must be designed with the though in mind that you will be spending those 158 points somewhere else. If those points are spent correctly, even before this change goes live, the pistoleer is perhaps one of the most powerful professions in game.
lol think of it like this...In the pistoleer mastery box there is a skill called Dabble power when you get this skill you get 158 points to spend in whatever you want lol.
You can not balance things with just your class in mind, you have to look at it from a skill point perspective....If they made each class extreamly good on thier own, then when it was paired to another combat class it would become too powerful. So they must design all the classes with the thought that people ae going to dabble in order to grab other skills which stack with thier current skills....
Nice try. The bottom line is that right now Pistoleer doesn't work on its own, for the most part. I just want this profession to work and be useful on its own, like other professions are.
Yes, I understand that you can gain additional skills in other classes, which will make you stronger. That's true with every profession. But you haven't given me one good reason why other professions -- BH, Commando, Smuggler, TKA, Doctor --should be viable on their own while Pistoleer is broken. That makes no sense.
If someone wants to be a Pistoleer/Chef or a Pistoleer/Pikeman, Pistoleer should work for themwithout having another pistol classadded with it. It shouldn't work as well, obviously, but it should work.
What you're asking for is for us to have skills that are worthless if you're a pure Pistoleer but become very powerful if you master another profession. I don't like that idea at all, because it means that Pistoleer is gimped as a profession yet there is some uber dabble combo out there that will be overpowered. We already have specials like that, and they're the reason that people who aren't BHs are frustrated with the Pistoleer tree while BHs like you and me are happy with the Pistoleer tree the way it is.