Pistoleer Archive

An extra+10 to boost to pistol speed (at master) sounds fair enough. It wouldn't take too much work after that getting tapes to hit the speed cap when firing stopping shot with a 2.6 speed Geo blaster, at that point. It doesn't solve the problems with the broken specials, the PvE AP issue, or the PvP accuracy issues, but it would certainly make it easier to hit the speed cap with pistols (without having to pick up the BH pistol line).

Sure, it would suck for people that forked over millions on pistol speed tapes, but I've noticed at least on Intrepid, that AA prices are going down anyways. In FebruaryI paid 2.5 million for a +6, +6, and a +5 pistol accuracy while moving tape set, and today I picked up a +9 and a +7 pistol accuracy while moving tape set for 950k. (shrug) Last week someone on my server got a +7 pistol speed tape for 500k (I missed the bid on that by 2 minutes).

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teeth0r wrote:

Err.. riflemen spend all that cash on extra speed tapes because they're firing weapons with speeds of up to 8! Pistoleers only need 90 as an absolute maximum, as has already been stated.

To be honest though, even if you were firing Stopping Shot once per second with the slowest, highest damage pistol you could get your hands on, you'd still get owned in PvP. Seriously.. random HAM? No Stun/Intimidate/Dizzy? AP0 Stun damage or AP1 energy/acid? What's the point.. you might as well just get the extra speed from BH, then at least you've got a special (Eyeshot)that's worth using in PvP to shoot once per second.

Extra speed would not be a useful 'quick fix' for Pistoleer at this point.

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Randonb wrote:

We're thinking along the same lines. I've already asked for a preliminary +10 speed before the combat balance. I don't think the devs would accept a +20 very easily, and who knows what things will be like after the CB. I don't think they want to do drastic changes and then risk taking them back later. One of the goals seems to be that everyone will have a reason to think about weapon speed, even the faster professions.

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I still think bonuses to accuracy will help more than additions to speed, though I won't reject a bit of speed either! It is much easier to extra speed to me it seems, from slicing a weapon or tapes, etc... We still hit less often than a master rifleman and more accuracy helps us over come defense stackers!

Any chance of gettign +10 to speed and +10 to accuracy?

"We're thinking along the same lines. I've already asked for a preliminary +10 speed before the combat balance. I don't think the devs would accept a +20 very easily, and who knows what things will be like after the CB. I don't think they want to do drastic changes and then risk taking them back later. One of the goals seems to be that everyone will have a reason to think about weapon speed, even the faster professions."

This is my response to the question and why they should accept us getting more speed. I posted this in another forum but it is a perfect argument for this particular instance.

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UWSkeletor wrote:

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Keito_Temreh wrote:

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Gumarx wrote:
I am personally a riflewoman but I find it very annoying in regular PvP and in creature missions because I can't shoot anything that gets close to me. Its great for running rebel missions because the imperial NPCs aren't too smart and I can make them fall down over and over again, but other than that I find myself a bit lacking in combat...all someone has to do is get right up on me and I'm not going to last very long...not to mention I have to buff my mind to be effective at all It's a handy combat profession to help supplement the income of a poor artisan but for those facing a rifleman in PvP...just get up close

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Hehe you are a very low level rifleman then. Once you hit sniping IV in the rifleman skilltree most of your shots even at point blank will land. Once you have sniping IV and 3 boxes into your speed tree you will be able to kill most creatures before they even can get into melee range. A master rifleman is more accurate at all ranges than any other ranged profession. At 64m i as a master pistoleer have a grand total of 5 accuracy using a dx2 with a scope mind you while a rifleman at point blank range will have around 80-90 accuracy still. At point blank using a DL-44 with scope my accuracy as a pistoleer is 85. Not to mention the fact i am slower. Not junping down your throat, i see you are a very new player but the game changes alot at master.

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Hey Keito,

It looks like you may have done some number crunching there, I'd be interested in seeing how you came to those conclusions. So I'm pretty sure that theonly differences between a rifleman and a pistoleers accuracy that will come into play are the profession accuracy and the weapon accuracy. So if a pistol has 0 accuracy penalty at 0m, like the republic blaster for instance, isn't the accuracy gained in pistoleer enough to overcome the accuracy that a rifleman would have? Or does rifleman gain +70 more accuracy than a pistoleer? And does a pistoleer have a gun that has positive accuracy mods at close range? Now this is just for two targets standing still, if you take into account the moving, I would think pistoleer would have to come out ahead in this case.

A rifleman gets +10 accuracy while moving I believe, and I assume a pistoleer gets much more. I'm not sure exactly what the penalty is for 2 targets moving, I'll try and find it, but my guess is that a pistoleer's accuracy will be better at close range than a rifleman's. Please if you have the correct numbers though I'd like to see them.

Now, with all of that being said, I do think Riflemen are too accurate at close range, but not necessarily "more" accurate than a pistoleer.

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It all has to do with total raw profession accuracy vs accuracy modifiers on the weapons themselves. I play a master rifleman on Bloodfin as well as a Master BH on Eclipse. I am very versed with the intricasies of all ranged weapons. With a weapon like a republic blaster i would indeed have +95 accuracy at point blank range and +95 at 64m. However a rifleman can pickup a laser rifle that possesses a mere -50 accuracy at 0m and end up with +110 accuracy at 0m( 160 -50=110) The rifle will hit harder( most standard unkrayted laser rifles are superior to most krayted republic blasters) and sicne its not a very slow rifle it's well under 7.0 speed it will be fired at the speed cap, while most republic blasters are anywhere from 2.5-2.3 speed and cannot be fired at the speed cap unless it's under 1.2 speed. You will find rifleman equivalent weapons to every pistoleer weapon will be far superior in every regard.

Pistoleers have to pay millions for weapons that are just about equal to what any rifleman can buy off a vendor for 40k or under and then end up with less overall accuracy and most likely speed as well. Let's not even mention the benefits of having AP2 and AP3 weapons vs having mostly AP0 and AP1 weapons. Rifleman also possess more damage types than any other profession in the game. Also dont forget Rifleman have ALOT more ranged defense then a master pistoleer which again lowers the accuracy of the pistoleer even lower.

Also as requested a dx2 with an advanced scope(total of +22 at 0m)vs a rifleman( worst ranged mod at point blank for a rifleman is -70 i beleive) will end up being 117 accuracy vs the +90 accuracy of the rifleman( this assumes the riflemn doesnt have a scoped weapon which changes the rules again placing favor in the rifleman once more) then reduce the pistoleer's accuracy again because the rifleman has heaping helpings of ranged defense. So then in the end the pistoleer being at his own ideal range and the rifleman being at hisworst range, the pistoleerwill stillbe at a disadvantage and have less accuracy and speed than the rifleman along with inferior defenses to boot.

One more thing i could kick the living shiznit out of a master pistoleer if all i had was sniping IV and novice medic and any standard jawa Ion rifle. There's some balance for ya, 4 boxes of an elite and novice of a basic profession will own a MASTER pistoleer.

And finally from another thread and even more relevant

Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-21-2004 11:19 PM

Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-21-2004 11:22 PM

Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-21-2004 11:23 PM

I concure we need more speed. But I also believe we need more accuracy also. I have been playing with a templete builder and even with master marksman and master pistoleer we fall behind a master rifleman with speed and accuracy.

Master Pistoleer Vs Master Rifleman only (not including bonuses from any other line. These are raw numbers from just master pisotleer and master riflesman and only the pistol or rifles trees in marksman nothing else.)

Pistol Speed +74

Pistol Accuracy +95

Pistol Accuracy While Moving +30

Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15

Pistol Aiming +16

Rifle Speed +90

Rifle Accuracy +160

/bump for the devs

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RandomSHO wrote:

just to let you all know, pistol accuracy doesnt get all that much better above 100. My pistol accuracy is up around +150 right now. I also use a fairly accurate scatter. in PvE, I virtually never miss. but in PvP I still miss a lot of shots against defense stackers. I can gaurantee that i hit a lot more often than just a regular master pistoleer, but accuracy is not the end all be all some make it out to be.

the only way to really fix things is to slow rifles down to a speed cap of like 2 or 3 seconds. and leave pistols at the 1 second speed cap. just removing some speed from the riflemen line wont help to much, as you can get decent AA and ST right now for speed. you need a hard cap to slow them down.

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Message Edited by Blankgrun on 04-26-2004 03:31 PM

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Blankgrun wrote:

EDIT: Don't nerf rifleman, they work fine. Fix Pistols and make it a compelling profession, THEN worry about balance.

Message Edited by Blankgrun on 04-26-2004 03:31 PM

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