Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Are Pistols good any more?
duabeckett wrote:
Im a master pistoleer... our role is crowd control... and i think the profession is now useless.
Stopping shot has an insane cool down timer on it, and its about our best move. Intimidation shot does nothing, firearm strike is moderately useful, warning shot erm... you get a nice icon i suppose. Disarming shot lasts for about 3 seconds before they shoot again... Quickdraw erm i dont even understand what it is... Burst shot and fan shot just cause aggro to an area and dont really do much damage, oh besides a nice little stun from burst shot...
Body shot is about our biggest damaging move... and i know were are crowd control so we modify our opponents, if someone can tell me about how those moves that have ridiculous cool downs and then dont work have any chance of controlling anything please let me know...
Also i am a master smugglar and commando 4400 (increased melee/ranged damage and general ranged accuracy). I only use the body shot from pistoleer!
The pistoleer should be the most awesome profession, but its not... it was better before the CU! It looks like Rifleman and Doctor is still the way to go. What a crock of sh*t.
Please tell me im wrong!
They should repackage it as Jedi vs Bounty Hunter... and be done with it...
duabeckett wrote:
Umm, then don't go MBH? You could go Carbineer for an equally damaging shot + some great control specials, as I have. You could go Smuggler for the same.
I havent gone MBH, im a master smugglar, master pistoleer... And considering i should have the most awesome crowd control because of the professions ive picked up my specials suck...
I think it has more to do with you not knowing how to use them. As a Smuggler/Pistoleer you are able to root and mez like none other. You also have the most damaging non-sniper shot in the game. You are able to lower the status resistances on critters and deal decent damage. With Concussion Shot and Stopping Shot alone you can take a number of opponents out of the fight and focus on a single one. Concussion Shot is NOT for use against the enemy you are focusing on, it's for stopping his buddies in their tracks. Furthermore, Smuggler is not a pure combat profession anyway, so you're losing some edge there in the way of mods and damage. Smuggler, like Bounty Hunter, is a Hybrid Profession, designed to do a number of things beyond simple combat. You've got to look at how to apply your abilities. If you've got Panic Shot, Concussion Shot, and Stopping Shot, and you're complaining that you can't control a crowd, then you're simply not playing your template right at all.
Post-CU there is no such thing as a "Pistoleer", or a "Rifleman" in the way you're describing them.
You say i dont make sense, this sentence doesnt make sense. Why am you telling me to go smugglar, squad leader or even carbineer - when you are saying that there is no such thing as pistoleer or rifleman... I think youll find on the SOE website there is a diagram showing what each profession does! Each profession has a unique angle to come into things... My issue is that pistoleer does not have the edge others do, and BH is ridiculosly overused....
Allow me to clarify: There is no such thing as a "Pistoleer" in the sense that you can run around relying on just Pistol specials and expect to own the battlefield. Pre-CU you had to rely on specials for your specific weapon only, but now most specials cross weapon types and professions. The new system is designed with the understanding that you will rely on skills from other professions, a Pistoleer using Carbineer moves and visa-versa, so saying "I'm a Carbineer" doesn't mean the same thing it used to. You say Pistoleer doesn't have the edge others do, yet almost EVERY ranged template incorporates at least some Pistoleer skills. Our edge is Stopping Shot, and when Stun is fixed, Burst Shot will be extremely popular as well. In weapon terms, our toys are FAST and have an insanely low SAC. I don't run out of action even when kiting Giant Canyon Krayt Dragons. That, my friend, is a very serious edge.
ALL the other ranged professions are complaining that they need Pistoleer in their templates in order to be viable.
And because of that complaining they got the only useful move, stopping shot nerfed... That is the only thing they wanted... oh and the decent defensive mods for that same branch xxx4. They dont go pistoleer for intimidate shot, disarming shot or fan shot do they? Why! Because they are useless...
Stopping Shot nerfed? What on Earth are you talking about? Furthermore, who goes Carbineer for Full Auto Area, Suppression Fire or Rapid Fire? Who goes Rifleman for Kneecap Shot? Yes, they go Pistoleer for Stopping Shot. I go Carbineer for Imp. Leg Shot and Crippling Shot. What's your point? Every other special in Carbineer is useless to me. I don't even consider Rifleman because it's ALL useless to me.
BH is like ketchup on french-fries: it adds immensly to the whole experience, but it's awful on its own.
BH is like Ketchup and Jedi are the french fries... So what about all the people that dont want to play jedi wars! The only reason BH compliments everything is because the devs hope that everyone picks it up and attacks jedi... Thus eliminating the biggest issue with the game at the moment... One which they overlooked when implimenting the Village...
Try saying that over at the BH boards, they'll laugh at you. I don't have MBH to hunt Jedi, and neither do most people who have it. First off, you can hunt Jedi at 3/0/0/0. Secondly, hunting Jedi is barely even content now. It is not lucrative, it's only fun for the occaisional thrill. It's rarely successful. Most people go MBH for Adv. Critical shot, the single most damaging "spamable" ranged attack, and for Improved Duelist Stance, our answer to Center of Being. You don't get any added abilities related to hunting Jedi at Master Bounty Hunter.
Dont get me wrong BH should be a great profession but where is the balance in this game... Commando uses the same SP as BH but doesnt pack half the punch. Same as pistoleer, carbineer, smugglar... why is it that profession is working and overrun with specials, defencive mods and accuracy... while others rot... The CU was meant to balance and although it has done a lot of good things it still managed to unbalance things in an entirely new way...
Bounty Hunter DOESN'T pack a punch on its own, yet you seem intent on comparing it alone to other professions on their own. Bounty Hunter has some moderate General Ranged mods, but that's it. All it does is add a little extra on top of any other ranged profession. Show me someone with just BH as their ranged combat profession and I'll show you someone who can't stand up in ranged PvP against, say, a person with only Pistoleer as their ranged profession. BH is a generalist profession, not a specialist one. The reason you see so much of it is because it fits nicely with all other ranged professions; it's a prop to a given ranged specialization, not the other way around. I'm a Pistoleer, and I'm a BETTER Pistoleer because I have Bounty Hunter for added damage. You are a Pistoleer, but you're a BETTER Pistoleer because you have Smuggler skills to add to your crowd control. You just need to learn how to use those skills appropriately. I'm a Crowd-Controller with some high-damage capability, and you are a Crowd Control specialist with a far better selection of Crowd Control moves and options. That's the way our templates work out.
GhostInAShell wrote:
I think it has more to do with you not knowing how to use them.
You've got to look at how to apply your abilities. If you've got Panic Shot, Concussion Shot, and Stopping Shot, and you're complaining that you can't control a crowd, then you're simply not playing your template right at all.
I am capable of using the abilities i have... the problem is that the specials havebeen nerfed through more important professions (in the eyes of SOE) complaining about there potency. Concussion and Stopping shot have the most ridiculous cool down periods now making them pointless for crowd control. For example, i am hunting pikets and shoot at one which causes aggro to three others (making four running at me). I can use concussion shot once and stopping shot once, but then have to wait a further 30 - 60 seconds until i can root the other one enabling me to take down one target at a time. To me crowd control means crowd... not 2 enemies at a time... As for panic shot, low blow, intimidate shot, warning shot... they do not keep the target controlled. Lowering states is good - if you have some state specials which we dont...
Allow me to clarify: There is no such thing as a "Pistoleer" in the sense that you can run around relying on just Pistol specials and expect to own the battlefield.
I never meant that pistoleer should incorporate all the defences, offences and specials to rule. I just meant that the majority of the specials are useless (you even say it yourself burst shot is flawed). The only good one we have is stopping shot and that has been nerfed to nothingness... Crowd control is a crowd... how can one stopping shot working every 60 seconds be crowd control... i can stop one from a crowd... what about the others!
Our edge is Stopping Shot, and when Stun is fixed, Burst Shot will be extremely popular as well. In weapon terms, our toys are FAST and have an insanely low SAC. I don't run out of action even when kiting Giant Canyon Krayt Dragons. That, my friend, is a very serious edge.
Like i said stopping shot is out edge (nerfed though) and other specials are broken (burst shot). I do agree that were fast and our weapons have low SAC... Also as a pistoleer how do you compete with Krayt Dragons?
Stopping Shot nerfed? What on Earth are you talking about?
Well when the CU first came out stopping shot was infinite (which is wrong) then the cool down got slowly increased until now. Which is just too much of a cool down making it unusable for crowds in PVE...
Try saying that over at the BH boards, they'll laugh at you. I don't have MBH to hunt Jedi, and neither do most people who have it. First off, you can hunt Jedi at 3/0/0/0. Secondly, hunting Jedi is barely even content now. It is not lucrative, it's only fun for the occaisional thrill. It's rarely successful. Most people go MBH for Adv. Critical shot, the single most damaging "spamable" ranged attack, and for Improved Duelist Stance, our answer to Center of Being. You don't get any added abilities related to hunting Jedi at Master Bounty Hunter.
I have said it over the BH boards, and it seems most serious BH are fed up with the people dabbling in there profession. My point about BH is that it has higher defences, higher offences, better specials than any other profession. So of course its going to be a profession of choice. Im not saying people are going it for hunting jedi, they are going it for torso, underhand, eye shot, critial shot... Instead of having majority of the games best moves in one profession have them spread out... Why hasnt commando got the defences of BH... Surely it should have. Considering MBH is supposed to be a tanking profession it doent half have some awesome offencive moves! Dont you think?
Bounty Hunter DOESN'T pack a punch on its own, yet you seem intent on comparing it alone to other professions on their own.
Compare the defences, offences and specials of BH to any other profession, especially considering the SP allocation for it and you will understand what im saying. It has the same SP allocation as all other professions yet it has more...
Bounty Hunter has some moderate General Ranged mods, but that's it. All it does is add a little extra on top of any other ranged profession. Show me someone with just BH as their ranged combat profession and I'll show you someone who can't stand up in ranged PvP against, say, a person with only Pistoleer as their ranged profession.
Im not saying people have BH has a solo combat profession but has it offers more the for the skill points it takes its going to attract a lot more people. Oh also after the CU it seems knockdowns pretty much command the PVP, BH having a ranged knockdown means they have much more chance of surviving that a pistoleer alone.. Thats if your comparing single combat professions!
BH is a generalist profession, not a specialist one. The reason you see so much of it is because it fits nicely with all other ranged professions; it's a prop to a given ranged specialization, not the other way around. I'm a Pistoleer, and I'm a BETTER Pistoleer because I have Bounty Hunter for added damage. You are a Pistoleer, but you're a BETTER Pistoleer because you have Smuggler skills to add to your crowd control.
I understand and aggree with what your saying but why is it that BH have fully working specials, where as pistoleer, smugglar, commando etc are left to rot... It shows that the devs have an order of importance considering professions.
You just need to learn how to use those skills appropriately. I'm a Crowd-Controller with some high-damage capability, and you are a Crowd Control specialist with a far better selection of Crowd Control moves and options. That's the way our templates work out.
I agree but when half the specials dont work for crowd control and you can underhand and critical shot me to perfection then what chance do i have.
Pistoleers have the best specials in the game and are mixed with the best defence you can get of the three primary ranged (Only while holding a pistol of course).. the fastest spds and the lowest SAC.. at close range, they also have the best accuracy curve.
Stopping shot is a root with a heavy timer..
Burst shot is a stun, it will knock down Jedi defence capabilities, on purebloods it will stop action regen
Warning shot is an armor break.. it will knock off about 80 to both defences
Disarm is one of the best delays in the buisiness
quickdraw is one of the fastest timers on any special you can compare it to..
Intimidate seems to be broken.. but it DOES slow down dmg capabilities..
Fanshot is a 30 degree aoe attack with a faster recovery that full auto area in carbineer..
I do not know what pistoleer needs to have fixed besides maybe adding a defence negative to Intimidate.. As for the rest.. out of all the prof's pistoleers get the most specials that work..
Stun is broken andonly does -10 to accuracy and defence, Intimidate does seem to do 20% attack reduction though.
Logitition wrote:
Burst shot is a stun, it will knock down Jedi defence capabilities, on purebloods it will stop action regen
Intimidate seems to be broken.. but it DOES slow down dmg capabilities..
Fanshot is a 30 degree aoe attack with a faster recovery that full auto area in carbineer..
For better defence, better SAC and better spd.
I have both rifle AND pistoleer and carbines.. I hardly use carbines.. but my main short range, frontline weapon is a pistol. Low sac and kinetic G5.. It is the best weapon out there for the melee charges. With a rifle you take about a 30% reduction in accuracy under 35m, and the defence is alot lower..
In that situation you swap to the pistol.. the kinetic is better than any rifle you can pick up, sac and acc better.. and with the spd, you can pepper KD's or the other special of yer choice.. and use the aoe to great effect on a crowd..
Stun is not broken from what i have expierienced, but now it looks like i will have to do a little testing to make sure.. it is not really susposed to stop a purebloods defencs.. just stop his action from regenning.. it seems to have a different effect on the jedi i have spoken to, but maybe i got it wrong.. I will go back and try some tests with this as well.
Blixtev confirmed for me that it is not working and only does -10 to defence and accuracy.
Logitition wrote:
Stun is not broken from what i have expierienced, but now it looks like i will have to do a little testing to make sure.. it is not really susposed to stop a purebloods defencs.. just stop his action from regenning.. it seems to have a different effect on the jedi i have spoken to, but maybe i got it wrong.. I will go back and try some tests with this as well.