Pistoleer Archive
Thread: So what is our compensation going to be?!
well he changed his post 2 hours after i posted so 
but was more of a joke... anyways id have to say the class with best crowd control ability by means of agro... is either CM or Commando
Zimal wrote:well he changed his post 2 hours after i posted so
but was more of a joke... anyways id have to say the class with best crowd control ability by means of agro... is either CM or Commando
Yeah I mispelled several words and changed it right after I posted...
We arent broken, but we are underpowered. Rifles hit for a good bit more damage at significantly longer ranges.
A big issue was tonight I went to necrosis. We defeated him, but little thanks to me. My specials wouldnt stick but for about 30% of the time. A rifleman's damage is just damage. Their advantage is that as long as they hit, they're 100% effective. On top of it, they have better accuracy than we do (which I don't disagree with) however not only will we miss more in general, when we do hit against higher level mobs, our main advantage is operating at a severly reduced potency. In about 10 minutes of constant specials (thanks to doc buffs, crystal, pixie and foods)using warning shot, I landed 4 stopping shots (shot it about 12 times), 1 intimidate, 2 blinds, 0 disarms (with a LOT of tries on this one)and 1 stun.
The problem that we had in the past is still there. We have limited effectiveness vs high level mobs. I like out abilities, but if they dont work it creates a real problem. Everytime I missed with stopping shot, it was complete havoc while people died. I was one of two pistoleers as well. It was just very difficult to stop shot him. Some would argue that effectiveness against higher level creatures should be questionable. However when this ability is considered into our "power" as a balance creates an issue, because damage dealers still can fill their role vs high level creatures, while we have great amounts of difficulty.
Our damage is just as decreased as their is, so we are the only ones at a real disadvantage.
My comment is that they want to see Root be less effective. What will that do to our ability in PvE? I dont want to go back to the days of not being wanted in a group due to the limited slots being better filled by other professions.
Right now, we still need better effectiveness with out specials vs high level content, and we need better defenses considering we have be so close to our targets.
My comment is specifically aimed at what the balance will be to counter a reduced effectiveness of our specials. If you have read my many posts in the past, I hate nerfing anything. We just needed to be brought back up to other professions power levels. In the beginning we got nerfed, because dabblers were spamming PMD1 and using super FWG5s and having their way in PvP. Its getting to be the same way again, rifleman and bounty hunter dabblers are threatening to put us right back into the "subclass" status. Devs often nerf without offering compensation, which I am sure anyone can see, would put us at quite a detriment, which may never be corrected.
NaKitNa wrote:
In about 10 minutes of constant specials (thanks to doc buffs, crystal, pixie and foods)using warning shot, I landed 4 stopping shots (shot it about 12 times), 1 intimidate, 2 blinds, 0 disarms (with a LOT of tries on this one)and 1 stun.
You wont stick disarm at all if a group is pounding a target as it breaks on damage. You wont even see the icon. If the Deuterium Pyro chef buff was fixed then you'd get +200 accuracy for about 55 shots, at the moment it works for 55 seconds. Crispic works but is a lot less of a buff.
The problem that we had in the past is still there. We have limited effectiveness vs high level mobs. I like out abilities, but if they dont work it creates a real problem. Everytime I missed with stopping shot, it was complete havoc while people died.
You shouldn't be relying on chain rooting to kill high level mobs, you'd better get used to it now anyway as I'm hoping this will be fixed soon. A combination of root, snares, movement speed debuffs and tanks is what PvE should be about.
My comment is that they want to see Root be less effective. What will that do to our ability in PvE? I dont want to go back to the days of not being wanted in a group due to the limited slots being better filled by other professions.
My job in a group, forgetting my medical skills... as a Pistoleer I keep Warning Shot on targets and make sure Intimidate is stuck, I use my 930+ max damage guns powered up to 55 SAC to output loads of damage, often taking hate away from riflemen. I occasionally use stopping shot to give players time to maneouveur and apply snares and debuffs, but I dont rely on stopping shot to get things done.
Right now, we still need better effectiveness with out specials vs high level content, and we need better defenses considering we have be so close to our targets.
The way I play my PIstoleer, the focus is on melee mobs never getting close enough to hit me, it depends what secondary professions you tack on but Pistols are very viable in high level PvE.
My comment is specifically aimed at what the balance will be to counter a reduced effectiveness of our specials. If you have read my many posts in the past, I hate nerfing anything. We just needed to be brought back up to other professions power levels. In the beginning we got nerfed, because dabblers were spamming PMD1 and using super FWG5s and having their way in PvP. Its getting to be the same way again, rifleman and bounty hunter dabblers are threatening to put us right back into the "subclass" status. Devs often nerf without offering compensation, which I am sure anyone can see, would put us at quite a detriment, which may never be corrected.
You rely on stopping shot too much it looks like, so you see the removal of the ability to chain root as a big problem. Most of us see chain rooting as a big problem and it needs to be fixed.
The only compensation we should have for fixing stopping shot is that Burst shot gets fixed at the same time, I can't wait to use a working cone stun shot in PvP and watch everyone drain away their action on me.
With regards to effectiveness, I mean everything... if you read all of my post you wil notice that I was using warning shot to try and stick my specials and I was using Deuterium Pyro, but it sounds like its ont working properly.
No one was chain rooting. Heck, I couldnt even get root to work most of the time. I had to use a carbineer special just to slow him down so I could run and keep him busy.
Have you fought necrosis? He is a melee mob, lol... and when your specials wont stick, you dont have the option of not letting him get close. AS I WAS SAYING... THINGS DONT STICK ON HIGH LEVEL CREATURES. Many people keep assuming that I am talking exclusively about Stopping shot. I rarely get to chain root with anyone as I wouldbe the only pistoleer in hte group. But shouldnt it be obivous that there is a problem if we can still chain root and I am having trouble getting anything to stick?
In addition, I dont know what type of rifleman yo are running with, but mine can outdamage me on single hits almost as fast as I fire. The best damages I land on higher level mobs will be an occational 1508 on a critical. The rifleman are hitting the 1500s regularly (head shot I think.. I iwll have to ask again) with their rifles.
I dont know if you breezed through my post to which you replied (which I do that to other posts all the time) but I mention that I am am refering all of our status effects. The original post was regarding the reduced effectiveness of stopping shot. That 15 seconds is great... IF IT LANDS... if it doesnt it take 45 seconds to be useful again. The same with Intimidate and Dizzy.... they are useful, but if you have to spam them for 20 seconds to get them to stick once... they arent that useful.
I play on Kettemoor, a 4 or 5 person group is pretty big for PvE. Our server can be a ghost town, the population is pretty concentrated in certain spots. So maybe you have the advantage with a large group.
You see what happenes when my specials consistently dont stick, I am left was very subpar damage. So that becomes my role... subpar damage, with an occational status effect. I get screemed at by rifleman, commandos, melee professions and doctors because I cant do my job, because status effects on high level creatures are sticking 30% of the time. I can't reduce their damage with status effects, nor stop them for a short period of time and if it werent for carbineer I couldnt slow things down enough, for long enough to keep things kited.
Apparently everyone one is happy with the current situation of things, so I am the one off kilter here.
One other thing... if they put a timer on a creature about stopping shot, will it be effected by doc buffs... letting specials be used more frequently is a rgeat aspect about doc buffs... but if its pointless to use a ability such as stopping shot, more quickly due to it, their effectiveness will be reduced.. something to point out to the decs if oyu get a chance.
I think they should make warningshot and intimdate shot a bit more useful and maybe tweak sac costs on certain moves ,and pistols overall.
Simple question.
where is our "crowd" control?
We have one cone for a state effect (and Stun doesn't work right anyways) and we have one cone for damage. We aren't "crowd" control, we are a 1 target debuffer (and we don't even have a state resist debuff to help with debuffing. well, I do, but I'm a MP/MSmug.) Our positional control has the worst cooldown timer that I have seen in the game. Warning Shot is useless (in that it doesn'thave an effect)against equal or lower CL mobs.
Aside from that, we don't get enough specific pistol skill mods.
Well, here's what I see needing to be done (aside from issues with specific weapons.)
1)fix stopping shot (put the immunity timer on it, then lower the cooldown to something respectable, even 5 seconds wouldn't be bad)
2) fix Stun.
3) fix the cone range to work within our pistol range
4) get rid of range caps and bring back accuracy modifiers for ranges. Making rifles just move slower won't address the issue, I can guarantee you.
5) make Warning Shot be able to send defenses into the negative range soit will work on equal or lower CL mobs.
6) redo the skill mods for all 3 ranged weapon professions so we all get the same number of specific and general skill mods. The distribution of the skill mods, the specials, and the weapons themselves are what separate the professions. The skill mod totals should be equal.
Those 6 things will go a long way to tweaking our profession and placing us in the 1 target debuffer role (even though we need a smuggler or CM to get the target ripe for debuffing.) Combine the profession with Smuggler, and you have pretty much the ultimate 1 target debuffer (along with a snare and paralyze.)
That's the stuff, Nifty.
We're on course for getting all of those issues looked at but I'll keep an eye on things.
Nifty wrote:Well, here's what I see needing to be done (aside from issues with specific weapons.)
1) fix stopping shot (put the immunity timer on it, then lower the cooldown to something respectable, even 5 seconds wouldn't be bad)
2) fix Stun.
3) fix the cone range to work within our pistol range
4) get rid of range caps and bring back accuracy modifiers for ranges. Making rifles just move slower won't address the issue, I can guarantee you.
5) make Warning Shot be able to send defenses into the negative range so it will work on equal or lower CL mobs.
6) redo the skill mods for all 3 ranged weapon professions so we all get the same number of specific and general skill mods. The distribution of the skill mods, the specials, and the weapons themselves are what separate the professions. The skill mod totals should be equal.
Those 6 things will go a long way to tweaking our profession and placing us in the 1 target debuffer role (even though we need a smuggler or CM to get the target ripe for debuffing.) Combine the profession with Smuggler, and you have pretty much the ultimate 1 target debuffer (along with a snare and paralyze.)
i don't feel warning shot is useless, i use it ALL the time, on "lower CL mobs" i don't because what's the point? they're easy enough to kill in the first place without debuffing them
also our specific mods are not in bad shape
if a pistoleer switches to a rifle, we don't lose as much so we can utilize one effectively
come to Imperial District on the Corbantis server. Every pvp battle that I have seen (usually about 2-8 hours of constant battle) has been centered in two cities on our server- Imp District and Rebellia.
Actairr wrote:
Its funny we are crowd control but we can't get within 35 meters of a rifleman to control them lol. In urban combat we can get close and LOS plays a huge role but how often is there urban combat?
Kevie wrote:
i don't feel warning shot is useless, i use it ALL the time, on "lower CL mobs" i don't because what's the point? they're easy enough to kill in the first place without debuffing them
also our specific mods are not in bad shape
if a pistoleer switches to a rifle, we don't lose as much so we can utilize one effectively