Pistoleer Archive

Thread: DPS is misleading. Your best DPS pistol might not be your overall best pistol.

CorenLanra
Tue May 10, 2005 9:10 pm
#14



Mafaza wrote:
Accuracy affects damage as well. This shouldn't affect weapons from the same class unless the weapons have different accuracy mods, though.





This isn't a very good test but here is what I did, I put a Speed powerup that had a -38 accuracy modifyer on it. I hit the same level mob for the exact same damage with and without the powerup on. I would have to try out a scoped gun same dmg vs non-scoped to double check and make sure, but I'm not sure how the accuracy is affecting the damage right now.



Stettin Palver - Master Weaponsmith
Chilastra - Corellia, South of Coronet 275 -5959
Stettin's X-Force Weapons | 6/26/03 - 12/20/05
-=Official Homepage=-
"The Crafting Menace" - Goodbye to SWG Video
The Science Fiction Review - Books, Movies, TV

Uthyr
Wed May 11, 2005 6:35 am
#15

Thanks, Tanker, those obersvations were helpful... especially the ones about kneeling/prone/standing. I've been wondering how that works now, post-CU. I haven't been bothering to change my posture for any attacks (I like being instantly mobile while standing), but I sure will now.



Col. Uthyr Pendragon | Artorius Pendragon
Elder Pistoleer/Rifleman/Bounty Hunter/Combat Medic
Elder Architect
Naritus vendors:
Tatooine (2369 -4123) - Castle Uthyr, Mos Eisley West

Kevie
Wed May 11, 2005 7:03 am
#16

something else i'd like to point out.....

with the cooldowns, unless a weapon isn't horribly slow, it's speed is mostly meaningless compared to max damage
and then once you get to a certain point of no action, speed completely meaningless




Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see), Kettemoor
There is no command, mood, chat type: smuggle
"#*% damnit, no. Caboose; I'm not cold, I don't want a hotdog, and if you
put mustard in my #&$^ing sheets again I'm gonna kill you." - Tucker
-

TankerDco
Wed May 11, 2005 7:20 am
#17

Ihear ya Kevi . Although, I keep seeing a difference. Fights with 1- 1.5 sec speed weapons vs fights with 2.3+ sec speed weapons(talking ranged)always has me losing less health. Sure Max Dmg will win the day but, I would rather win with enough health to continue the fighting than win and have to sit or use up meds/buffs etc.. The way it feels to me is I cannot win if I can't get my rounds on target and he who gets more rounds on target, quicker wins. Unless we're talking weapons that do massive amounts of damage in one shot, in which case speed won't matter.


Understand my post was an attempt to add factors into testing...so please don't think I'm trying to write a rule book. Jeez, SOE should have done that..LOL


Cheers
certifiedandrew
Wed May 11, 2005 7:43 am
#18






Kevie wrote:
something else i'd like to point out.....

with the cooldowns, unless a weapon isn't horribly slow, it's speed is mostly meaningless compared to max damage
and then once you get to a certain point of no action, speed completely meaningless





A combination of brandy and low action cost will win the day. If you're using a rifle then you'd better kill your opponent quickly before that 120 action cost catches up with you. And a pistol with 320 DPS and 105 action costis not necessarily better than one with 301 DPS and 84 action cost. In fact, it's not.



*edited by admin*
RenKesson
Wed May 11, 2005 7:51 am
#19






Nifty wrote:


Here are the 4 guns I used, ranked by the modified DPS (gun min-max base spd/mod spd base dps/mod dps) at the time I was MP/MBH/SL 0/0/0/0

DL 44 XT 385-849 1.97/1.21 313.90/511.13

Rep Blstr 383-831 2.24/1.38 292.24/475.86

Fth FWG 296-864 2.03/1.24 286.23/466.08

DX-2 400-868 2.32/1.43 272.76/444.14


Now, if you go off the DPS, that DL-44 XT is definitely where it's at. Unfortunately, that's not the case since the weapons don't hit for a random amount of damage each time. They hit for a specific amount... which for my skill level seems to be about 95.4 - 95.6% of the max damage value on a basic ranged shot or

DX-2 830 (95.62% of the max)

FWG 824 (95.37% of the max)

DL44 811 (95.52% of the max)

Rep 795 (95.66% of the max)






DL44: 811/1.21 sec = 670.2 DPS
FWG5: 824/1.24 sec = 664.5 DPS
Rep: 795/1.38 sec = 576.1 DPS
DX-2: 830/1.43 sec = 580.4 DPS


That's the math I did based on Nifty's actual numbers. Am I wrong, or is the best gun still the DL44, followed by the FWG5?




----------
"I've got black magic, a hair trigger, and a short fuse. Bring it!"
-Black Mage
Nifty
Wed May 11, 2005 9:02 am
#20

Ren, when the speeds are that close, in actuality, it takes a quite a few shots for the lower damage/faster gun to outdamage the higher damage/slower gun.


Take 10 shots. The DL-44 should get 10 shots off in 12.1 seconds, while the the FWG has taken 12.4 seconds to get 10 shots off. That's not much of a difference at all. Damage wise, in the 10 shots, the difference is 8110 to 8240. Again, that's not that much of a difference. So in practice, you're really not going to be "better" in either case over 10 shots. For the DL-44 to start to outdamage the FWG we'd have to fire an awful lot of shots, which is not this particular DL-44's strong case given the 115 SAC vs the 84 SAC of the FWG.


The numbers you generated do show that the DL-44/FWG is a better option than the Rep or DX-2, as there is a significant decrease in the DPS.


The issues I was really pointing outare that 1) the shown DPS has the DL-44 being significantly better than the FWG, and practice shows they are about the same and 2) the shown DPS has the Rep being just a bit better than the FWG, and practice shows the FWG is better than the Rep.





Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
Kevie
Wed May 11, 2005 9:25 am
#21

i also wonder how much elemental dmg plays into this

(not counting resists, etc.)

since elemental dmg is one number, and not a range, maybe it has a higher impact on the dps calculation (the stat on the gun, and true dps calculation)




Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see), Kettemoor
There is no command, mood, chat type: smuggle
"#*% damnit, no. Caboose; I'm not cold, I don't want a hotdog, and if you
put mustard in my #&$^ing sheets again I'm gonna kill you." - Tucker
-

Nifty
Wed May 11, 2005 9:40 am
#22

Kevie, that's completely possible.


I have no idea how elemental damage works, because it's not shown at all in the verbose combat spam. At least with the rep blaster, all it shows is xxx energy damage and MOB's armor absorbed yyy points of zzz potential energy damage. Or something like that.


Elemental damage should be shown in verbose combat spam.





Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
Kevie
Wed May 11, 2005 1:34 pm
#23



Nifty wrote:

Kevie, that's completely possible.

I have no idea how elemental damage works, because it's not shown at all in the verbose combat spam. At least with the rep blaster, all it shows is xxx energy damage and MOB's armor absorbed yyy points of zzz potential energy damage. Or something like that.

Elemental damage should be shown in verbose combat spam.




well it would also be VERY hard to test lol

the devs usually don't give out formulae, so i guess we should just go by feel, and figure out what our best weapons are




Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see), Kettemoor
There is no command, mood, chat type: smuggle
"#*% damnit, no. Caboose; I'm not cold, I don't want a hotdog, and if you
put mustard in my #&$^ing sheets again I'm gonna kill you." - Tucker
-

Kharast
Thu May 12, 2005 1:19 pm
#24






Nifty wrote:


The reason is that DPS is calculated roughly as average damageover time. Average damage is meaningless in SWG right now, as we hit for the same amount of damage with a given pistol (or any weapon) against a given target each and every time.


Now, if you go off the DPS, that DL-44 XT is definitely where it's at. Unfortunately, that's not the case since the weapons don't hit for a random amount of damage each time. They hit for a specific amount... which for my skill level seems to be about 95.4 - 95.6% of the max damage value on a basic ranged shot or

DX-2 830 (95.62% of the max)

FWG 824 (95.37% of the max)

DL44 811 (95.52% of the max)

Rep 795 (95.66% of the max)


Point is, as long as we hit for a set percentage of the max damage value, DPS is a misleading statistic.





okay, i would like to confirm my understanding into how to appropriately determine our best weapon. to my understanding, nifty and others are suggesting to take Max Dmg and divide by Spd to garner the raw firepower over time of our weapons at master level fighting (which most of us are nowadays).


is this about right?



Melee and Ranged:
Officers go both ways!
mrmark200000
Fri May 13, 2005 7:28 am
#25






JANGO69 wrote:

How does acc Bonus fall into this?






if you got more accuracy than your target has defense, your almost garanteed to hit, and will do more damage than normal.



Smugger alliance Pilot.





Jedi In the NGE. I like. cool Melee

need some tips for the CU? want to learn good tatics for group fighting and soloing? send me a tell, mrmark, eclipse server.

Makkaio
Fri May 13, 2005 1:40 pm
#26

Maybe I'm going batty, but I thought I read somewhere that the discrepency within the low to high damage range becomes less as you gain more levels. As a level 80, we are experienced enough to land consistent damage on a target, which is why when you use the same special over and over, you basically hit for the same damage again and again. At lower levels, do you seems to hit with less consistent damage? I can't remember this from testing the CURB. If this is the case, then we would have a more consistent DPS.


If you really want to find out your personal DPS, just find a pack of the same mob or duel a friend. Add up the total damage you do during an encounter and devide it by the number of seconds it took to finish the encounter.


However, there are too many variables to get an accurate DPS. All NPCs and critters are not alike, even those of asimilar level. They have buffs and debuffs, too. They have different resists. They have different armors. On and on. The current damage stats on your weapons are just guidelinesfor trying to make a decent guess at which one during certain encounters.




Makkaio

"Remember, it's not the game that sucks...it's you."
Page 2 of 3