Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Why doesnt pistol have a ranged death blow?
SebastionGrey wrote:
It's not the fact that we dont have a ranged db that bothers me. Its the fact that when I incap someone, 4 out of 5 times they SLIDE 30meters away, all the while I'm chasing their limp bodies around trying to db before I get killed by their g'tef'ed buddies! LOL
ANNOYING.
Exactly my point... why should we have to play grab a$$ with incaps when we have a friggin pistol in our hands?? I just dont get it.
SebastionGrey wrote:
It's not the fact that we dont have a ranged db that bothers me. Its the fact that when I incap someone, 4 out of 5 times they SLIDE 30meters away, all the while I'm chasing their limp bodies around trying to db before I get killed by their g'tef'ed buddies! LOL
ANNOYING.
Hehe, that is incredibly annoying and really funny at the same time!
And, I was not saying change the damage when outside of ideal range, most of my previous comments were not suggestions. The only suggestions were to leave Rifleman alone along with there ranged DB skill, get your existing skills fixed/enhanced and focus on getting your own new skills rather than taking anothers. The rest wasmostly sarcasim and rant, not suggestions.
And eh, I agree, although it can be funny, its more annoying than funny, they need to fix the sliding person thing.
zazo wrote:
The question is not why doesnt pistoleer have a ranged deathblow but more rather why does rifleman have a ranged deathblow? Your logic makes sense of course you shouldnt have to run up and db someone but all of the other ranged professions have to do the same thing. You mean you cant kill someone with a rocket launcher at long range? In my opinion its either what make sense as in all ranged professions have a ranged db or none of them do.
I would lean toward none of them having one but then that would mean the "n" word for riflemen so I try not to complain about it.
DakOveran wrote:
We don't because we don't need one. We need fixed specials. Not new ones
/agree five stars for you.
Why does it seem that Riflemen and Pistoleers can not get along?
Anyways, the reason the Riflemen have a ranged DB is because the Devs think that is what makes Riflemen snipers. The Riflemen recently asked the Devs their one question. It was what role do you see for the Riflemen. The Devs answered that Riflemen should be snipers.
Now it should be rather obvious that that is not really possible given the 64m range limitation, ability to automatically spot anyone with radar, and all the other issues that make true snipers what they are.
But the Devs wanted a sniper like riflemen because that is what is expected with rifles. Look at just about every first person shooter game out there. They all have sniper rifles. So SWG had to have one to. Regardless if it was even practical.
So Riflemen got SniperShot. But lets look at it first. SniperShot is from the Sniping (Accuracy) IV box. It counts as one of the skills that a Riflemen have. Yet look at its limitations. It is a skill that can only be used in PvP. More than that, in can only be used when the target is incap'd. For players that don't PvP it is a wasted skill. Would you want to loose one of your skills just so that some of you could do a ranged DB only when the target is incap'd? Those that PvP probably would. But the majority don't PvP. For them it would be a wasted skill. You could have something else in its place that has more use.
As for the speed complaints. I know many say that a pistol should fire faster than a rifle. Yet there is no real basis for this other than an opinion. Rifles and pistols have the same basic internals and as such would have similar mechanical speed limits.
As for accuracy while moving. No weapon is going to be very accurate with both targets moving, even if close together. Some of you may have heard the true story of two gamblers that got into a gun fight around a poker table. Both were running around the table firing at each other, neither one was hit. Hitting a moving target while moving yourself is very difficult. In most cases you don't even aim, you point and shoot. Especially when the target is firing back. You are both ducking, weaving, and you have lots of adrenaline going thru you.
Granted the pistol is more manueverable in this case. But the rifle also has an advantage of full auto fire (in the case of assault rifles) so they can "spray and pray". It's the same advantage an SMG would have at close range.
The way I see it the professions are not meant to be identical. They are meant to have a role. The Rifleman is the infantryman. They deal in raw damage. That is their strength. The Carabineer is the assualt troop. Good AoE attacks and lots of status effect changes. You could even call them the crowd control profession. While the Pistoleer is more of a defensive template. It has low DPS (compared at Master level to the others) yet makes up for this by being able to resist status effect changes and other defensive bonuses. Dodge lets you avoid an attack completely. While Riflemen have Block that reduces the damage, but any status effect still takes place. Carabineers have Counter-Attack. Not sure how it's suppose to work, but by the name it would indicate a free attack, by the player,whenever that ability kicks in.
Now I'm not saying everything is perfect nor that it doesn't need some tweaking. Besides the obvious of fixing the specials there is one other change that could be made that would help the Pistoleer. The main problem isn't their speed. It's the delay multiplier in the specials themselves. This is what give the perception of pistols being much slower. You lower those delays a little and you would notice a major improvement.
Waste93 wrote:
Why does it seem that Riflemen and Pistoleers can not get along?
Anyways, the reason the Riflemen have a ranged DB is because the Devs think that is what makes Riflemen snipers. The Riflemen recently asked the Devs their one question. It was what role do you see for the Riflemen. The Devs answered that Riflemen should be snipers.
Now it should be rather obvious that that is not really possible given the 64m range limitation, ability to automatically spot anyone with radar, and all the other issues that make true snipers what they are.
But the Devs wanted a sniper like riflemen because that is what is expected with rifles. Look at just about every first person shooter game out there. They all have sniper rifles. So SWG had to have one to. Regardless if it was even practical.
So Riflemen got SniperShot. But lets look at it first. SniperShot is from the Sniping (Accuracy) IV box. It counts as one of the skills that a Riflemen have. Yet look at its limitations. It is a skill that can only be used in PvP. More than that, in can only be used when the target is incap'd. For players that don't PvP it is a wasted skill. Would you want to loose one of your skills just so that some of you could do a ranged DB only when the target is incap'd? Those that PvP probably would. But the majority don't PvP. For them it would be a wasted skill. You could have something else in its place that has more use.
As for the speed complaints. I know many say that a pistol should fire faster than a rifle. Yet there is no real basis for this other than an opinion. Rifles and pistols have the same basic internals and as such would have similar mechanical speed limits.
Why? I'll tell you why. But first, master pistoleer. Then, go hunting. Take a master rifleman with you. Then youll know.
Think of it this way. Rifleman, have the strongest ranged weapons, who target a pool that is unhealable. Pistoleers, have the weakest weapons, target the health pool, which is incredibly easy to heal. Now, it gets bad when rifleman have the capability to reach very very high speeds, where as that is something the pistoleers are ment to have as thier strong point.
When the game is ( supposible ) based on balance and having skill points equal where ever you spend them in combat, pistoleers, should be equaly dangerous as rifleman and carbineers. Theres NO reason why this shouldnt be. If rifleman have stronger weapons, and pistoleers have weaker weapons, then the pistols should be faster, and rifles should be slower.
Study on gladiatorial games in ancient Rome. Matches would be pitted fairly. Skinny man with a knife, vs a larger man with a heavy blunt object. Its speed vs raw power. Guess how man times the skinny man won.. half the time.
So.. tell me if you still think there is no real basis that pistols should be faster than rifles other than a matter of opinion.
As for accuracy while moving. No weapon is going to be very accurate with both targets moving, even if close together. Some of you may have heard the true story of two gamblers that got into a gun fight around a poker table. Both were running around the table firing at each other, neither one was hit. Hitting a moving target while moving yourself is very difficult. In most cases you don't even aim, you point and shoot. Especially when the target is firing back. You are both ducking, weaving, and you have lots of adrenaline going thru you.
Granted the pistol is more manueverable in this case. But the rifle also has an advantage of full auto fire (in the case of assault rifles) so they can "spray and pray". It's the same advantage an SMG would have at close range.
Im thinking of carbines when it comes to full auto fire.
The way I see it the professions are not meant to be identical. They are meant to have a role. The Rifleman is the infantryman. They deal in raw damage. That is their strength. The Carabineer is the assualt troop. Good AoE attacks and lots of status effect changes. You could even call them the crowd control profession. While the Pistoleer is more of a defensive template. It has low DPS (compared at Master level to the others) yet makes up for this by being able to resist status effect changes and other defensive bonuses. Dodge lets you avoid an attack completely. While Riflemen have Block that reduces the damage, but any status effect still takes place. Carabineers have Counter-Attack. Not sure how it's suppose to work, but by the name it would indicate a free attack, by the player,whenever that ability kicks in.
Last time I check the rifleman skills, it looked to be more of a sniper than some combat grun. Conceal, cover, conceal shot, head shot, sniper shot... doesnt sound like your standard infantry grunt. Carbineers fit the description with thier full auto attacks. Oh, lets not forget TH saying your not a grunt class.... rather a sniper/long range...
Now I'm not saying everything is perfect nor that it doesn't need some tweaking. Besides the obvious of fixing the specials there is one other change that could be made that would help the Pistoleer. The main problem isn't their speed. It's the delay multiplier in the specials themselves. This is what give the perception of pistols being much slower. You lower those delays a little and you would notice a major improvement.