CUEmu - Thread Posts

Protilious

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:49 am

Hi,

I'm a pistoleer: 0,1,2,1 and fencer 0,1,2,1. I am also a master doc. I admit, I am green at PvP in this game and really work on being a support type 'master doc' the most. I have played many first person shooters and basically, nothing that really compares with how a 'battle' works in the SWG universe. That being said....

I have to tell you a brief story so you can understand my immense frustration.

Me and four friends went to dathomir (on Corbantis server) last night. We wanted to do some Rancor missions for huge xp. The only way we can get rancor missions is for my longtime playing friend to go overt imperial, whip out his AT ST and group it with us as we hit the mission terminal.Here's the rest of my friend's stats:

Longtime playing friend is a master pikeman/master ranger.

Friend 1 is a novice TKA, about a third up to master

Friend 2 is a novice BH with something else (can't remember)

Friend 3 is a master doc (but I honestly can't remember his combat skill)

So the five of us stand there, pull some missions and all hell breaks lose. My experienced friend gets attacked while mounting his speeder bike by a rebel. The rebel hits him instantly with 'dizzy' attacks and my friend is completely unable to defend himself.

He yells at us to help. I know we will all die, but he doesn't want to lose his ATST. I have also literally *just buffer* all of us. That's about 50K worth of buffs.

We attack, I notice out of all my pistol shots (half specials, half normal shots, as I'm running in circles) hit for a total of TWO TIMES for about 130 damage each. Within 8-10 seconds I am dead and so are all of my other friends. The attacking rebel is nearly at 100% health., and is now killing my friends AT-ST.

What a price to pay for a rancor mission, eh?

It was really dissapointing. Not that we were attacked, but that 5 people of different complimentary skills and some master, AND an AT ST could not do a thing. NOTHING.

My friend went on to explain things like 'damage mitigation' and 'defense stacking' problems. It didn't matter. For me the killer of this whole rediculous moment is that we all died!! I don't care what you are, what you claim to have stacked, 4 people in decent skiill levels + at-st attacking one (non jedi) guy should be overkill! NOT A LOSING BATTLE.

What a crock of bantha dung.

Is pistoleer really that useless? I think I only hit twice... *maybe* three times and I could see no negligble damage on the rebel attacker. We were all armoured up with good armour. We all have some of the best weapons our professions allow. So I ask, is this the sort of outcome I should expect to live with?

Would I have been better off switching to stun baton and cracking him in the head? He didn't seem to care to run. He did do some TKA stuff on two of my friends. For myself, I think I was shot two times and died. Thus, I didn't have any time to heal myself between him aiming his barrel and pulling the trigger.

I literally only lived as long as he did because he had to waste 8 seconds on killing my other 3 friends. So I feel REALLY lucky <insert sarcastic eye roll here>.

Any advice? It was so terrible and one sided, I can only imagine how broken a trained jedi is. I have only been playing for a month and do not like this PvP inbalance in the least.

Would fencer do me better in a situation like this?

Prot Ilious
Master Fish + Master Businessman + Owner of:
**Prot Industries** Value Resources
Vendor just outside of Theed.

Hobgrob

Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:03 pm

#2

Lets add up the skill boxes...

(keep in mind this is just a crude estimate of power)

You have 8 boxes in your elite combat trees (basic combat don't count)

Master pikeman has 16 boxes in combat, but are so ineffictive in pvp that it doesnt count

Novice tka 1/3 of the way up, i.e. about 5 boxes

Novice BH, lets say 1/2 , 8 boxes

37(21 if not counting pikeman)boxes in elite

This guy you were fighting was most likely:

TKmaster (16 boxes)

Master rifleman (16 boxes)

probably fencer dabbler for higher defense (4-7 boxes)

36-39 boxes in elite

That single guy has more defense and firepower than the three of you combined, simply because he had the mastery of 2 combat professions and dabbling in another. It's just the way it goes, he concentrated all of his skill and life to mastery of combat while each of you were dabblers with a variety of skills. He sacrificed the chance of looking at other content (like ranger or doctor) by only concentrating in combat, speciafically, pvp combat.

It shows that proper pvp should be conducted between trained professionals. To have an even match the players should be evenly matched in skill points distributed among elite combat skills. This was a completely uneven match, and was not a proper pvp encounter. But then again, what do you expect from rebel terrorists...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oran Leva, Ahazi, Tatooine, Dystine
ex-Master Droid engineer/Master Artisan
Teras Kasi Master/Master Pistoleer

I was a crafter before I opened my first holo. It showed me the light, and I let go of the crafting tool, never to touch it again...

Hobgrob

Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:13 pm

#3

Anyways, some pvp techniques:

If fighting an opponent of high defense:

You stated you were running around in circles. That does make you harder to hit, but also decreases your accuracy as well. If he was a master, rifleman, then accuracy wont be a problem for him and running around wont help. In this case the best option would have been to kneel and use aimed shots (and at ideal range if possible)to get the best accuracy possible to break through his defense. Important thing in PvP is to keep a cool head and deal with the situation accordingly. I.e. if you get shot, kneel and return fire. If bled or poisoned, dont bother wasting time healing it, deal with the immediate threat. Don't worry about how much damage you're taking, because healing is a waste of time if he can do more damage than you can heal. It follows very different rules from PvE

Ofcourse if you died in two hits then there was nothing to be done. he was obviously prepared, I assume he was using headshots using a ion rifle, ignoring your buffs and armor. You were caught by surprise, and in his case catching you guys in surprise basically doubled his firepower. Again a very uneven fight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oran Leva, Ahazi, Tatooine, Dystine
ex-Master Droid engineer/Master Artisan
Teras Kasi Master/Master Pistoleer

I was a crafter before I opened my first holo. It showed me the light, and I let go of the crafting tool, never to touch it again...

radtranceman

Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:18 pm

#4

Just so you know. Most people who pvp won't care why your friend was overt. Being declared will make you fair game, especially if an ATST is called. I would suggest to your friend that if he does not want to PVP or loose the ATST then don't go overt and don't call it.

If you encountered a full time pvp'er then that character will have all the advantages as it is tailored to pvp combat. Also, the attacker has probably mastered two combat professions or picked up multiple defense skill trees from various professions. You simply don't have the skills to compete with that at your level. When facing an opponent like this it isn't always about damage, you need work as group in a fight, whomever has a stun move should use it to lower the attackers defenses, use blind to lower the attacker's accuracy. You need to have the full suite of moves that only a high level elite profession gives. Its not just about damage. Contrary to popular belief, PVP is all about preparation and using the proper tactics for use against your opponents play style. Stackers can be beaten by non-stackers. You just have to know what you are doing.

They removed ATST from being able to function in PVE so if you are using the ATST in PVE using the guard exploit it is exactlythat, an exploit, most rebels I know upon seeing this will destroy that ATST out spite.

Zzz (pronounced zed)/Wanderhome
Dictator of Monk

Hobgrob

Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:29 pm

#5

Yep you sure are right, being overt is an open invitation for pvp, and all is fair game.

Except I tend to walk up to overts or TEFs and warn them that if they don't leave the area they'll be attacked... and I prompty end up staring at the sky as they laugh and beat down on my poor self...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oran Leva, Ahazi, Tatooine, Dystine
ex-Master Droid engineer/Master Artisan
Teras Kasi Master/Master Pistoleer

I was a crafter before I opened my first holo. It showed me the light, and I let go of the crafting tool, never to touch it again...

BlasterForHire

Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:39 pm

#6

this post is a good example of a common misconception too... i think most "casual pvpers" or players not very experienced in it don't realize some of the facts that make these things happen.

1. power increases exponentially in many of the combat professions, especially tka, rifle, etc. there's a huge difference between a 3/3/3/3 rifleman and a master rifleman. like, the difference between a swimming pool and the atlantic ocean.

2. people who pvp alot are geared up for it. we use enhanced weapons with the best damage slices. I buy rifles BY THE CRATE. I get them all sliced, keep the very best damage slices, and chuck (or give away) the rest.

3. we also use the best powerups, skilltapes, armor, etc... anything for an edge.

4. we also use macros to best stack our attacks, switch out armor, heal damage, etc.

the whole point is this-- i've got millions of credits invested solely in making myself a better pvper.it's all about damage on target, and survivability. You and your friends weren't even close to being in the same league as that class of player, because you haven't put the money and effort into it. Have you ever spent a million creds in a weekend on weapons? another million on buffs? that's the kind of player you were probably roasted by.

Olaca

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:56 pm

#7

A suggestion for the future Protilius,

If your friend has to go overt and pull the ATST to get better missions, pull the missions out of a player city where no one is around (not that hard to find).

Or pull the missions out of an active player city that is the samefaction as yours. Active faction player cities usally have a few bases nearby. The outcome would probably be the same but, having a bunch of npc's jump the guy might (just might) give you all time to escape. Plus if it is an active city other players would be around to help as well, and for some reason they don't like people using there bases as faction farms

Just a thought, because I go overt and run faction missions out of a very active player city and have been rescued numerous times by kindly stormies or other players.

Ela Fauslave
Master Dancer
Pistoleer
Loyal Citizen

Joubei_businessman

Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:20 pm

#8

Protilious wrote:

Hi,

I'm a pistoleer: 0,1,2,1 and fencer 0,1,2,1. I am also a master doc. I admit, I am green at PvP in this game

your skill point distribution is bit off, since the higher u go the more power u get exponentialy

there is a world of diffrence between a pistoleer with 0-1-2-1 and a pistoleer with 0-0-4-1 witch is the exact same skill points!

when you get marksmanship 1 you add up what 10 more accuracy? hehe useless.

when you get trickshot (techniques 4) you get stopping shot and fan shot, also you get +50 vs KD and +40 vs blind and so on.

and the other thing 0-1-2-1 fancer?

all you need is to add up to 4-0-0-0

the defence line of fancer is sooo uber its amazing will give you about 70 melee def and about 60 rng def (...i'll have to check for exact numbers)

so in other words

being master doc means nothing,

if you wanna keep up with pvp and make your life allllllot easier in pve, just add few defences and all rest would be easier.

dont dabble at the low end (0-1-2-1) dont add up to nothing

stack up offence or defence, but important thing is to stack up! (pistoleer 0-0-4-1) or (fancer 4-0-0-0)

hope this helps some.

yours Joubei.

Joubei Kimosabie Light Jedi Knight___________________

GunFighter Forever

Space Cowboys

Hawaii5_o

Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:55 pm

#9

I just think it's funny that an Imp is complaining about getting PWNED in PvP! On Kettemoor, the majority of PvP'ers are Imp.

Arogalt Torgalt - Master Gunfighter

Kettemoor Phalanthropist

JawaJoey2

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:57 pm

#10

-Master Doc/creater handler

-Master Doc/ Pistoleer/fencer

-Master Pikeman/Master Ranger/Master Marksman (? I think MM too?)

-TKA novice (about halfway up to master)

-Master Marksman/Novice BH

- AT-ST

Here's some truth about proffessionsL

Master Doc: as far as fighting is concerned, its a waste of skill points, except for maybe the buffs.

Pistoleer- low skills really isn't enough to be considered powerful, even Masters aren't the best at PvP

Fencer- again, low skills, and none in the Defense tree

Pikeman- widely viewed as a broken class. They miss a lot and are pretty bugged from what I here

Master Ranger- adds absolutely nothing to PvP whatsoever

Master Marksman- Mastering a basic prfo is nothing compared to an elite. And Master Marksman is a pretty pointless box. There's no specialization, so basically you have level four of one weapon tree, plus a little better accuracy and speed.

1/2 TKA- pretty good, but can't compare to a Master anything.

Novice BH- unlessaccompanied with one of the three BH weapon trees, it's pretty much master Marksman.

Altogether, that doesn't add up to much, and plus, this guy sounds like a real serious PvPer, with two elite combat profs mastered, plus actual PvP experience, planning, and strategy.

Now about the AT-ST, they are commonly solable by strong elite combat players, so it's no real travesty that it was taken. It just takes a really strong player to do it, and it proves that this guy was.

{[]|[[[[[|||||)(|)[[][//################################

Protilious

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:47 am

#11

Well now I know. And just to make sure it's clear what this guy took down there was 5 of us plus an AT-ST.

I can't tell you what the rebel was. It was over so quickly. Sorry. All I know is he had effective range attacks on me that killed me in two shots and he had seemed to use TKA in close combat on my other friends.

We were all buffed with my Master Doc D buffs hitting for well over 2K on most stats.

We all had armour on that is pretty darn expensive.

Our skills:

-Master Doc/creater handler

-Master Doc/ Pistoleer/fencer

-Master Pikeman/Master Ranger/Master Marksman (? I think MM too?)

-TKA novice (about halfway up to master)

-Master Marksman/Novice BH

- AT-ST

In the end, if this what you guys say is 'to be expected' then so be it. I just wondered if that outcome was the 'norm' considering the details. I guess it is. Now I know.

The game isn't a first person shooter for me, I have no aspiration to develop into a 'PvPer', I guess.

I'll just ask my friend to keep his At-St away and I'm sure we'll still find challenging missions. Thanks for the feedback.

Prot Ilious
Master Fish + Master Businessman + Owner of:
**Prot Industries** Value Resources
Vendor just outside of Theed.

hase2

Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:08 pm

#12

was you mind buffed too?

if not thats the way he owned you guys.

riflemen have head shot -> goes directly into mind

TKAs have the same as melee attack.

also, when a 5 person group having an AT-ST open gets ambushed by a single player expect that he did his homework. that includes examining the players he attacks for their pools, armor and mastered professions.

0merta

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:28 am

#13

Im a experienced pvper from the Eclipse server, just started here in the forums and i can understand you frustration over being trashed to pieces.

The rifleman used the strafe2 shot that is avalible on master rifleman, its a highdamage area attack that hit all 3 ham bars. He probably also used the area stun attack in flushing shot 2. Stun takes down your defence by alot. The range area dizzy attack called flurry shoot prolly also was used.

They Webel has mastered Rifleman and you mentioned Tka, and that gives him both melee mitigation3 and range mit3, noone of you has that in your professions yet. The rebel prolly had some more defences from fencer and a nice amount of skill points in medic where he can heal up to 1500 damage to him self.

He was a finished pvp template that spends all his time pvping and like this case show us he did very good. To be killed by a guy like that shouldnt hurt as much as being killed by 5 Webels with for TEFers (Temporary enemy flag).

Dont forget to use the scenery, run behind buldings and wall.

To answer the guys that said that doc doesnt do anything for pvp, i disagree there. Docs can remove stun,dizzy,blind, wich this guy most likely used all of them, He hasnt the healing powers like a combat medic but still can easily heal up all damage done to the action and health bar. He mentioned attacks that did 2k damage to everyone. I agree that the doc couldnt taken care of all of thoose but some of thoose easily in one heal. Master Ranger isnt a pvp profes right, only add 10 range and melee at master. With fencer or rifleman thoose 10 would matter abit. With Pikeman not much since they allready have crappy defence.

Thanks for my time

Pistoleer Archive

Thread: I don't understand this PvP crap.