Pistoleer Archive
Thread: My conclusions of pistoleer defense after weeks of testing.
First off i am a master pistoleer/rogue/artilleryman/field stabilizer so before anybody makes any assumptions i feel its important and relevant to the results of any given test when dealing with combat in SWG, every unique template can and does effect the outcome of these tests and several things ingame in the past have stacked. And this is exactly what brings me here today.
Now during the last few weeks i've been getting my butt handed to me literally by Teras Kasi masters and what i mean is i literally didnt stand a chance against them. This struck me as odd as we pistoleers do very well against creatures in PVE that are doing melee damage and hit harder than tks do.
Well my weapon of choice is the commando launcher pistol, i tend to be able to find them with better stats than republic blasters or any other pistol on my server. I also love using panic shot and last ditch assault on AT STs, i kill them faster and easier than flamethrower commandos do but thats a whole other thread.
Well i keot getting my butt handed to me by these TKMs and it occurred to me that maybe it was ebcause i was using a commando pistol and i was suffering the melee penalty. I was wrong, as i immediately switched to my republic blaster and the same thing everytime i got KDd and dizzied and summarily executed. Wow, i have a grand total of +55 to KD defense and i still kissed the carpet every single time! Well i knew something stunk in china town and i knew this just shouldnt be.
So i got a friend who happens to be a TKM to help me do some tests. You guessed it, every single marksman pistol failed to defend against KD, i dropped everytime the first hit every single time no matter what pistol i chose from marksman or commando. So i got a BH/pistoleer friend to come help me test, same thing, he used a scatter and everytime he got KDd.
Now this left but one single weapon i hadnt tested, the world famous piece of crapola, the DX2! I hate this weapon, i summarily despise it with all my heart and soul. But i was out of options so i decided why not lets try it and see. I didnt get KDd once in 30 tries by the TKM, not once! I dodged alot and the damage being dealt to me by the TKM was pretty laughable, highest hit was 296! I could easily heal through that and with muon gold, my drug of choice and addiction, now i knew i could take on a TKM! Yes the dx2 sucks the monkey but where it does shine is at point blank, the place TKMs kill people. I never missed the TK nor was he able to dominate me, i was able to easily escape him and kite him to death as he couldnt posture change me or knock me down!
So now i still hate the dx2 but i now have that baby hotkeyed to swtich to when i see a TK running for me. I still prefer the launcher and republic against all other professions but when i fight melees for now on its dx2 all the way!
As a sidenote it will be absolutely wonderful when all the new pistols Thunderheart promised come to pistoleer, as they also will work with our defense mods. Just keep in mind, until then our defenses do NOT work with marksman, bh, or commando weapons!
TEST FOUR: FireKnockdown using Laser Carbine against Master Pistoleer with pistol EQUIPPED
Defender = me (Master Pistoleer + BH pistol line, which has no Defense v. Knockdown)
Attacker = Master Bounty Hunter, using FireKnockdown with a 42-403 Laser Carbine (ideal range = 50m)
Range = 35m
Number of FireKDs that it took to knock me down (10 tests): 4, 2, 7, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 3 (AVERAGE = 2.5 shots to knock me down when I had a pistol equipped)
This is an interesting result -- it seems that Defense v. Knockdown does nothing when the opponent is using a high damage Laser Carbine. This leads me to believe that your ability to knockdown your opponent is affected by the amount of damage that your weapon is spitting out. More data to test that conclusion, although the stark differences in the tests I ran are pretty significant. More tests are needed, however, to confirm that 50% Defense v. Knockdown is ineffective against an enemy who is using a high damage weapon.
I hope this data is helpful to all of you. I'll keep testing further when I have the time, but I think that my hard work from this weekend yielded some interesting results and gives us some hard numbers to point to.
With a dx2 by my tests it is almost impossible to be KDd using it, however if you use a scatter or any other pistol according to my tests you will almost always get KDd. I would suggest retesting all of your tests if you were using any other pistol than a dx2 during them as the results could be WAY off.
that is VERY interesting though.... might bring a new market to the DX2 as the melee defense pistol of choice... try the DX2 in PVE at all? i.e. melee using NPC's??
just curious, keep up the good work Keito...
can you test any of this for us Phil?
Well, I'm not sure what to say. I've never before heard the theory that our defenses only work when a DX2 is equipped. Can others test it out? It seems *very* weird to me, and if it's true the Devs need to change it. We shouldn't lose the benefit of our defenses when we're fighting a mob that has lower resists to Heat or Energy instead of Acid.
Can anyone else help test this to verify that it's true? Can you guys post numbers here that I can pass along to the Devs? I'd appreciate anyone who is able to help.
SauerSiggy wrote:
I can tell you right now, it's darn near impossible to knock donw pistoleers, no matter what gun they are using.
I can tell you right now, that's not true -- unless the Pistoleer is also a TKA.
Thank you for your input, however.
We must by playing differerent games philosopher, we always seem to have different findings.Just because you do get knocked down does not mean it was easy.
I use FKD all the time, commandos it knocks down, and smugglers it knocks down. A pistoleer with pistol techniques 4 is basically immune to my knockdown within the time it takes for me to get them down. I.E They have me dead before I can get both the dizzy and KD to stick. Given, the BH KD is weak, but our dizzy is argueably one of the most powerful in the game (from sprayshot). Melee classes on the other hand, they can knock anyone down and dizzy anything.
I'm just saying from the perspective of someone who uses a KD attack in PvP, that your defenses are working correctly at least against the bounty hunter knockdown. I'll try two-three FKDs and if they don't work (hardly ever do)then change to pistol, by that time my ham at half because of the exorbant ham costs on carbine specials (but that's for another time).
BTW, after reading your post regarding pistoleer defenses (which is probally one of my favorite analysis posts on the forums) I do in fact use a laser carbine, 56-543dmg 2.5 speed
SauerSiggy wrote:
We must by playing differerent games philosopher, we always seem to have different findings.Just because you do get knocked down does not mean it was easy.
I use FKD all the time, commandos it knocks down, and smugglers it knocks down. A pistoleer with pistol techniques 4 is basically immune to my knockdown within the time it takes for me to get them down. I.E They have me dead before I can get both the dizzy and KD to stick.
I just find that hard to believe, because I haven't found that to be true -- not just in tests, but in PvP. Howcan you be so sure the guys you're facing aren't also TKAs or Fencers?
I appreciate your kind words later in the post, and I don't think we disagree all that much. Defenses, on the whole, have gotten too powerful lately. Some professions and dabble combos are nearly impossible to hit, much less knock down. But I think you're pointing your finger at the wrong culprit when you say that the Techniques line, on its own, is thwarting your knockdown attempts. That's my only disagreement with you. I have the feeling we agree about broader issues.
I'll have to run some tests on my own in a controlled enviroment to see how the FKD works on a pure pistoleer. Just from my combat experience, it's been very hard to KD pistoleers. My friend is a Master Pistoleer/Master Smuggler and we had a very interesting duel the other day. I opened like normal, try first for the health pool to see if I could get through, no can do, he has 75% all effectivness sliced armor on, so I leave him with that and the bleeds. Then I eat 2 rhyscrate and pull out my carbine for some sprayshots. Boom, lowblow and i'm flat on my ass. I get up, he panic shots me. I run behind a fountain until I can shoot again. I keep hitting FKD over and over again, to no avail. I had a list of "Your attack failed to knock down your target" about 10 high, so screw the KD, went back to sprayshot. Use sprayshot for a while, wasn't having much luck because he uses stim Ds and would heal whatever I damaged him for. So then I pull out my pistol and start jamming stopping shot but it too has trouble against him and his armor. Then I get KD'd again and panic shotted again (used opportunity to pop a muon which he did before the fight). So i'm back to full mind, he's at about half mind and we keep going at it. Finally I decide to try something different because i'm obviously not gonna get through his armor. I use supression fire. Nada. Couldn't knock him down, couldn't change his posture. Now the dots I hit him with are gone and we're still fighting. I decide to try a new tactic, fastblast. I was lucky enough to him when his action was low from last ditch, and I barely win (mind was at 50).
Then the next day, he wanted me to kill him so he could get rez and have buffs re-done. He had armor off, so I decided to give FKD a try. Worked first shot, everything stuck. Now this makes me wonder if armor has a part to play in these defenses? Its only logical if weapons can have an impact on how well people's defense mods work.