Pistoleer Archive
Thread: I have some ideas for Pistol animations.
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ViolentAngel
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:10 pm
#1
I play Swordsman simply for how it looks. Its not as good in game as a TK/Fencer, but its got some cool moves as a couple of gorgeous weapons to swing.I really want to play as a Gunslinging Pistoleer. Don't get me wrong, Roll Shot is cool, but pistoleers have got nothing that reinforces the exciting image that pops into your head when you think of John Woo gunfights, Dante from Devil May Cry, The Matrix, Equilibrium (okay, Equilibrium was poorly done, but the -idea- of Gun Kata prbbly looked good on paper), and has anyone played GunGrave?
The moment Pistolleers get Duel Weild and some Fancy Moves (or just one or two!) I would gladly dump all the skills I have and grind to the ends of the earth, becuase then I'll have fun doing it.I'm enjoying climbing the Swordsman tree at the moment, every times I get a new special its a big thing for me, I rmbr when I first got HeadHit1, its a 'cking cool horizontal head cut, followed all the way around into a rearfoot reverse hook kick. Beautiful. I still used it even though my entire combat approach was centered around Spin2 and Sweep2. I want something just as impressive when I take my matching pair of DL44s out of the bank. Why DL44s? Becuase they look cool. Enough about me, here's my ideas.
The moment Pistolleers get Duel Weild and some Fancy Moves (or just one or two!) I would gladly dump all the skills I have and grind to the ends of the earth, becuase then I'll have fun doing it.I'm enjoying climbing the Swordsman tree at the moment, every times I get a new special its a big thing for me, I rmbr when I first got HeadHit1, its a 'cking cool horizontal head cut, followed all the way around into a rearfoot reverse hook kick. Beautiful. I still used it even though my entire combat approach was centered around Spin2 and Sweep2. I want something just as impressive when I take my matching pair of DL44s out of the bank. Why DL44s? Becuase they look cool. Enough about me, here's my ideas.
On the route to Novice Pistoleer you are granted BodyShot1, DiveShot, RollShot, KipUpShot, BodyShot2, and HealthShot1. I think its fair enough to have Marksmen using run-of-the-mill specials while they get used to the formal, easier and more practical grip and stance. Rollshot and the like look great.
HealthShot2 is different though. Now you have taken your first step into becoming a rogue. Besides, nearly everyone has this on their macro bar from the moment they get it until the day they drop pistoleer altogether. I would therefore suggest that this is where the new animations should start. This is also everyone's opening shot. So a quick spin of the pistol (enter the space cowboy!) before you level it into the marksman's, lefthand-steadying-the-righthand shot.
From here on in Pistoleers start to utilise a one handed style that would give them the "lose and unothodox action pose" that embody pistoleers and gunslingers in the movies. Besides this gives ample oppurtunity to convert the animations fordual weildingpistols.
Pistol Tactics is an odd collection of Dodge skill bonuses, PB specials, and Bodyshot3 (I guess they had to put that somewhere). The Dodging and PointBlank in the same line does make sense when you understand that your main advantage in using a gun is that you have "infinitely" better range. At close range a brawler can stop you from from shooting him by parrying your gun just the same as he would a knife. But this gets harder if you are pulling away from him. So...
PointBlankSingle2. The avatar could move his left (front) foot back and then pivoting around on it to bring him back to the left foot forward stance (that all SWG Avatars use) as he shoots. Lift his right hand as hepulls back (shoot with the left gun if he has two), shoot with his right as he puts his weight onto his left foot (kind of a backhand shot) and another with the other side (same sort of backhander, this time with the left) as he comes to left foot forward. One shotwith only one gun, three with two guns, but hey, its just animation.
BodyShot3 is a little odd. I don't know why its in the "Dodge" line, and with it simply being no more than a big brother of the Marksman specials, there's no inspiration. Perhaps just lower the avatars arms so that he uses hipshots. Left hand on top of the gun for single pistol users (classic western shot).
PointBlankArea2 is desperate seeking animation. You want a dodging PBArea shot, then lets have our Gunslinger spinning on the spot, waving his guns around in random directions. He could duck as he pivots away, similiar footwork to the PBSingle2, but with the gun held on-the-side gangsta style, before he spin jumps on the spot with his arms spinning him about shooting everything. Obviously this one wouldn't step away very far, thoseducking steps would shorten his stride and otherwise it would be a pretty naff PBaoe, right?
PointBlankSingle2. The avatar could move his left (front) foot back and then pivoting around on it to bring him back to the left foot forward stance (that all SWG Avatars use) as he shoots. Lift his right hand as hepulls back (shoot with the left gun if he has two), shoot with his right as he puts his weight onto his left foot (kind of a backhand shot) and another with the other side (same sort of backhander, this time with the left) as he comes to left foot forward. One shotwith only one gun, three with two guns, but hey, its just animation.
BodyShot3 is a little odd. I don't know why its in the "Dodge" line, and with it simply being no more than a big brother of the Marksman specials, there's no inspiration. Perhaps just lower the avatars arms so that he uses hipshots. Left hand on top of the gun for single pistol users (classic western shot).
PointBlankArea2 is desperate seeking animation. You want a dodging PBArea shot, then lets have our Gunslinger spinning on the spot, waving his guns around in random directions. He could duck as he pivots away, similiar footwork to the PBSingle2, but with the gun held on-the-side gangsta style, before he spin jumps on the spot with his arms spinning him about shooting everything. Obviously this one wouldn't step away very far, thoseducking steps would shorten his stride and otherwise it would be a pretty naff PBaoe, right?
Pistol Stances and Grips line is all about resisting status (Stances and Grips) and a swiss army knife collection of (flavour adding) specials thrown in for fun.
DisarmingShot1 is about accuracy. Regardless of whether you have one gun or two, you point your right gun straight at the opponent, with your shoulders, arm and feet all lined up sideways pointing down your line of sight. You can almost imagine him squinting one eye. Super cool movie pose that has to be put somewhere, after all,this is the pistoleers "save someone's life" shot.
DoubleTap. Bang bang. If you want to keep your aim for two very quick shots, put your left hand (regardless of if it is holding a gun or not) on top your right gun to absorb the recoil. Or that's how they did it in the Westerns anyway.
StoppingShot is where you shoot someone in the foot, or just in front of where they are stood. If they make it act like warcry rather than a replacement for Suppression Shot, this would be wicked for RPing in the middle of a Duel with someone who just whipped out his Stun Baton.
FanShot. One handed or not, give the avatar a lateral movement of the his hands in a side-on gangsta style grip. Its a punk kid way to shoot but if it wasn't included someone would feel left out. Mind you spraying shots wildly is punk kid anyway.
DisarmingShot1 is about accuracy. Regardless of whether you have one gun or two, you point your right gun straight at the opponent, with your shoulders, arm and feet all lined up sideways pointing down your line of sight. You can almost imagine him squinting one eye. Super cool movie pose that has to be put somewhere, after all,this is the pistoleers "save someone's life" shot.
DoubleTap. Bang bang. If you want to keep your aim for two very quick shots, put your left hand (regardless of if it is holding a gun or not) on top your right gun to absorb the recoil. Or that's how they did it in the Westerns anyway.
StoppingShot is where you shoot someone in the foot, or just in front of where they are stood. If they make it act like warcry rather than a replacement for Suppression Shot, this would be wicked for RPing in the middle of a Duel with someone who just whipped out his Stun Baton.
FanShot. One handed or not, give the avatar a lateral movement of the his hands in a side-on gangsta style grip. Its a punk kid way to shoot but if it wasn't included someone would feel left out. Mind you spraying shots wildly is punk kid anyway.
Pistol Special Abilities. Melee defense and pistol speed with a while standing bonus. Well the Speed and Standing bonuses scream out "Pistols at Dawn". Melee defense and the specials are about dealing with brawlers on their own terms. Not a great idea really, but it works in the movies...
PistolMeleeDefense1. Everyone loves pistolwhip. It could stay as it is. It could be a little flashier, perhaps alead elbow hook, followed by a lead backhand with the butt of the gun and a rearfoot hook kick to the knee level to bring em down.
PistolMeleeDefense2 is why I suggest something a little flashier for PistolMeleeDefense1. Do you rmbr that scene from the Matrix, in the lobby, where the last man standing is granted an amazing jumping flick, flick, and hook kick to the head? Man that would look sweet. (Many TKA+Pistoleer=Smugglers players out there would love this)
PistolMeleeDefense1. Everyone loves pistolwhip. It could stay as it is. It could be a little flashier, perhaps alead elbow hook, followed by a lead backhand with the butt of the gun and a rearfoot hook kick to the knee level to bring em down.
PistolMeleeDefense2 is why I suggest something a little flashier for PistolMeleeDefense1. Do you rmbr that scene from the Matrix, in the lobby, where the last man standing is granted an amazing jumping flick, flick, and hook kick to the head? Man that would look sweet. (Many TKA+Pistoleer=Smugglers players out there would love this)
In the Master Pistoleer box we have DisarmingShot2 and MultiTargetPistolShot. There is a pattern there. Disarmingshot2 would be very similiar to DisarmingShot1, but with an added shot tagged on so that it disarms -both- hands of the opponent, and not just one. Where DisarmingShot1 would only add a "ouch" to a twohanded target's combat que, DisarmingShot2 would clear his combat que and place his weapon in his backpack, like DisarmingShot1 did to singlehanded targets. MultiTargetPistolShot could be the pride and joy of all show off Pistoleers. I don't know how hard it would be to develop a code where a change of target (by using this move on a second opponent) would leave your first target still being shot at by every other shot. But that's the proggrammers problem 
Smuggler's live on the edge. They aren't about fighting and heroism, they are all about surviving that little bit longer, at any cost. Smuggler's don't fight guards, hitmen and bount hunters, they down 'em and run. (Triple Masters may disagree with me about that! ) Smugglers are not assumed to be duel weilding, and their specials reflect that.
FeignDeath can stay as it is for obivous reasons (unless you give our smuggler a Beckham Feign Death)...
PanicShot is a great example of a Smuggler's point of veiw. A quick draw, Han Solo style. Pull your gun out of its holster and shoot as soon as its free (from the hip, in other words). Lean the avatar to the side he is shooting from and bring the other hand up to the side for balance. Han Solo pose.
LowBlow should be a melee ranged move I swear! Drop the avatar down to both his knees and bring his right hand up between his targets legs like all those American Wrestlers. If it's going to stay as a long ranged special, drop the avatar into a kneeling-dodge animation and have him shoot from the hip at litterally the last split second before he hits the dirt. Thats from a Duel at Dawn scene in some movie, I just can't rmbr which...
LastDitch is about desperation and aggression. The avatar pulls out his gun(s, this is definatley duel weild compatible) takes a quick PanicShot shot and then steps forward as he extendeds his arms, driving shot after shot into his target while he grits his teeth into a snarl.
) Smugglers are not assumed to be duel weilding, and their specials reflect that.FeignDeath can stay as it is for obivous reasons (unless you give our smuggler a Beckham Feign Death)...
PanicShot is a great example of a Smuggler's point of veiw. A quick draw, Han Solo style. Pull your gun out of its holster and shoot as soon as its free (from the hip, in other words). Lean the avatar to the side he is shooting from and bring the other hand up to the side for balance. Han Solo pose.
LowBlow should be a melee ranged move I swear! Drop the avatar down to both his knees and bring his right hand up between his targets legs like all those American Wrestlers. If it's going to stay as a long ranged special, drop the avatar into a kneeling-dodge animation and have him shoot from the hip at litterally the last split second before he hits the dirt. Thats from a Duel at Dawn scene in some movie, I just can't rmbr which...
LastDitch is about desperation and aggression. The avatar pulls out his gun(s, this is definatley duel weild compatible) takes a quick PanicShot shot and then steps forward as he extendeds his arms, driving shot after shot into his target while he grits his teeth into a snarl.
Bounty Hunter's are the real deal. Deadly and serious, no flashy buisness, best equipment and loads of gadgets. Bounty Hunters are not assumed to be Duel weilding, and their specials reflect that.
BleedingShot and TorsoShot could look like my idea for Bodyshot3.
EyeShot would be the marksman's lefthand-steadying-the-righthand shot.
FastBlast could be Jango's glorious moment where he killed the jedi on the balcony at the Geonosis stadium. Every MandoFanBoy wants to do that.
But the idea I have for the Bounty Hunter is that before he uses a special, he reaches to his belt and clicks something into, or onto the barrel of his weapon. It doesn't have to be big enough to warrant giving it a graphic, but just the animation of him adjusting something to his gun. As if he had inserted a needle into the barrel for EyeShot, or attached a flammable something container for TorsoShot. Boba and Jango always had the best gadgets for each job. That's your source for Bounty Hunters in the SW galaxy.
BleedingShot and TorsoShot could look like my idea for Bodyshot3.
EyeShot would be the marksman's lefthand-steadying-the-righthand shot.
FastBlast could be Jango's glorious moment where he killed the jedi on the balcony at the Geonosis stadium. Every MandoFanBoy wants to do that.
But the idea I have for the Bounty Hunter is that before he uses a special, he reaches to his belt and clicks something into, or onto the barrel of his weapon. It doesn't have to be big enough to warrant giving it a graphic, but just the animation of him adjusting something to his gun. As if he had inserted a needle into the barrel for EyeShot, or attached a flammable something container for TorsoShot. Boba and Jango always had the best gadgets for each job. That's your source for Bounty Hunters in the SW galaxy.
ViolentAngel
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:17 pm
#2
I've also got ideas for Dual Weilding rules.
Let all Novice Pistoleers dual weild, with big penalties.
Decrease the penalties as you gain skill boxes, but the big decrease in penalties comes when you get Master Pistoleer. Even then you still have a little problem with your off hand. This basically aripp off of the D&D / KOTOR Dual Weild idea, 'cept you can't dabble for full results, but you can still dabble to make it worth it.
Rodians andMon Calamari could have a dual weild bonus for their off hand due to the their independant eyes.
ViolentAngel
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:23 pm
#3
Oh btw, the two above posts are written in with a set ofworkingspecials in mind. I am aware that most of those specials don't do anything at all, let alone do what I imply they do. I hope that one day a few of the pistoleer moves will actually work the way that their name implys. We all look forward to that time,I'm sure.
Maybe when that day comes, I can change my siggy (without losing the effects) too.
DoomGiver711
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:10 pm
#4
Great ideas! I've always thought that they needed to put in animations for the specials. As for Dual Wield, I think they should just do it like DnD. You get the skill at Novice Pistoleer but it the off hand weapons suffers a reduction of accuracy( I don't know 25% of normal accuracy?) and the main hand weapon suffers a reduction in accuracy too. Then add in skill mods that would improve the accuracy of both so that by the time you reach Master Pistoleer you can shoot both at the same accuracy.
Also something else for Dual Wield. Have each of the weapons weighted. What I mean is a smaller, light weight weapon would receive a bonus when using Dual Wield. And just for fun throw in some Matrix style dives, in Slow-mo. I kid, I kid!
WinterRoseASFR
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:13 am
#5
Okay, these are some freakin beautiful ideas. Sources you might try to emulate pistolwise might be:
Hard Boiled (John Woo, 1980)
The Killer (John Woo, 1989)
The Outlaw Josey Wales (Clint Eastwood, 1976)
Lethal Weapon 1, 2, 3 & 4 (Richard Donner)
The Matrix 1, 2 & 3(Andy & Larry Wachowski)
Die Hard 1, 2 & 3 (John McTeirnan)
Leon; The Professional & The 5th Element (Luc Besson)
And of course...
Equilibrium (Kurt Wimmer 2002)
What are some more suggestions you folks would make to the dev's?
Hard Boiled (John Woo, 1980)
The Killer (John Woo, 1989)
The Outlaw Josey Wales (Clint Eastwood, 1976)
Lethal Weapon 1, 2, 3 & 4 (Richard Donner)
The Matrix 1, 2 & 3(Andy & Larry Wachowski)
Die Hard 1, 2 & 3 (John McTeirnan)
Leon; The Professional & The 5th Element (Luc Besson)
And of course...
Equilibrium (Kurt Wimmer 2002)
What are some more suggestions you folks would make to the dev's?
dalordofSWG
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:55 am
#6
Im gonna PM jeasse to ask if she could pursuade one of the devs to look at this
KillaJohn
Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:55 am
#7
Great ideas. I would ignore that fact that pistoleer's are gimped in everything if only we had the aesthetic quality of Max Payne and the Matrix. I would however like to give my input and suggestions. Everything you said was well thought out and beautifully described, but i have a suggestion for Pistol Melee Defense specials. For Pisto Melee Defense 1 I envision tossing my pistol slightly into the ait, spinning it on the x-axis, so that i grab the barrel, and cracking my opponents skull with the butt (grip) of the weapon, directly on the temple, causing him to become dizzy (we could use a state effect) and possibly fall to one knee (posture change down). Depending on his defenses, he may fall to one knee as a result of the incredibly focused blunt force of this attack, thus possibly causing him to fall when combine with a dizzy state. As for Pistol Melee Defense 2, i like the idea of a sweeping kick following the above animation, only instead of a posture change, it is a knockdown (along with the dizzy). IMHO the dizzy should not be very potent, as it would be unbalanced to have a dizzy/posture change or dizzy/KD in one move. However the posture change and kd should be quite effective and potent, as it is a great risk for a Pistoleer to move in close enough for a melee attack, especially against a melee opponent.
I'm sure i've seen these moves in movies before, or perhaps in other games. Anyways, thats just my 2 cents. Again, great post
I'm sure i've seen these moves in movies before, or perhaps in other games. Anyways, thats just my 2 cents. Again, great post
Message Edited by KillaJohn on 07-01-2004 11:57 AM
Espo99
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:00 am
#8
of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, and some will agree while others disagree, but I would rather have a working profession with no animationinstead ofwhat we currently have with all the coolest eye-candyanyone could think of...
the ideas made by the original post are great, but I'd prefer working specials, better accuracy and more speed
DAVCRE
ALOTAKIJIN
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:13 am
#9
omg i love this post. in the movie the dl44 is one of the best guns. unfortunatly in the game is piece of junk but hey. i still love me. they look awesome plus they make the best sound. and the whole animations part. my god exactly what the game needs. more animations. not only for pistol but for all. this post needs to be heard. simple things such as animations and thing slike that could change the game more then adding in any extra armor or item, who cares. this is what makes a game. keep posting **edit**like this dude. to many people out there dont have a clue what makes one game diffrent from another.
ALOTAKIJIN
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:18 am
#10
wow i have to learn how to type... simply put
get the devs to read this and ill mail you $500000000000000000000000000
KillaJohn
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:37 am
#11
Just had another idea, though i dont know if anyone else would find it appealing. Perhaps the execution of the Pistol Melee Defense attacks can be done at normal pistol range but, preceding the actual blow, the Pistoleer charges his opponent, at burst run speed, and then proceeds to execute his attack. This would potentially add greatly to the time required to execute this special, but i think it would be pretty sweet. As the pistoleer is running he will prepare himself by, through whichever animation is most popular, switching from holding onto the grip of his pistol, to holding the barrel, ready to crack some skulls with the butt of his weapon.
Message Edited by KillaJohn on 07-01-2004 12:39 PM
Randonb
Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:31 am
#12
Melee does have all the cool animations right now. These are some great ideas. Understand that this would fall under the "polishing" category far down the road. Mocap work (where they get the animations from models) is very expensive, so they try to do it in big batches only once in a long while. The art team is also overworked for the time being and I'm not sure when it will let up.
To paraphrase Cinco (Lead World Designer) at Fan Fest.. "I'm hearing a lot of people ask 'can you do this?' .. the answer is almost always 'Yes.' This is computer code and computer code can be changed. The list of things we cannot do is very short. We have a lot of things we'd really like to do, but haven't had the development resources to do it yet."
I would be absolutely thrilled if Pistoleer could get to a point where this was on our Top 5 Issues. It probably won't happen until after that point though.
biwan:
Koth_Ablon
Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:26 am
#13
Hard Boiled and the Killer are my favorite movies, i would remake my char just so i could have the name Tequila or Mad Dog! The best pistol fighting in any movie ever happens in these masterpieces.
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