Pistoleer Archive

Thread: Is Pistoleer alone a viable profession? No? I beg to differ

TenshiHanaKinu
Mon May 16, 2005 10:42 pm
#1

I'm seeing these statements in multiple threads and I'm puzzled.


What are you fighting?


I can solo CL82 enraged Kimos and the only things in PvP I cannot beat are Jedi...


If you mean Pistoleer at CL54 by itself... then yeah... you won't beat much of anything -- and neither would anyone else at CL54.


So I'm asking. What're you fighting that you don't think Pistoleer does OKay as your only combat profession ( I say that 'cause I don't "kill" anyone with Doctor )?



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RAMBOW
Mon May 16, 2005 10:47 pm
#2

I can solo many things in PvE NS Elders, protectors, spellweavers, stalkers (CL 84) Its just that Pistols is weaker then the other comabt professions, and is being dabbled like it was before..



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TenshiHanaKinu
Mon May 16, 2005 11:00 pm
#3






RAMBOW wrote:

I can solo many things in PvE NS Elders, protectors, spellweavers, stalkers (CL 84) Its just that Pistols is weaker then the other comabt professions, and is being dabbled like it was before..






Yes, it's weaker... but we have some pretty powerful abilities, which if used right, can take down very powerful foes.


And though I haven't run the numbers, Improved Stopping Shot doesn't hold for the same amount of time as Advanced Stopping Shot (at least, it's not supposed to). In group PvP, yeah, there's not much of a difference there, most people die before the root ends... but for one-on-ones... it's nasty. Against heavier armors it IS harder to do damage, but over time it's still possible to win.


I just am puzzled by these statements I see, since I do so well.



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BadgerSmaker
Tue May 17, 2005 1:33 am
#4

I dont get it either.


I can dump out my action bar at one shot per second and out-damage riflemen and jedi.


I can solo any melee mob in the game given enough space to run around in.


I look cool because everyone else has a rifle at 64m and I run around 20m away from Ancient Krayts.


I have Pistoleer and my elite medic lines and I do fine.



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Giftmacher
Tue May 17, 2005 3:27 am
#5

Agreed Pistoleer/Doc works for me, I can solo CL82s if I need to.I think we only look weaker when people stack with other crowd control professions etc. In which case you're not really comparing like with like. Interesting though, seen as only a short while ago we were getting heat for stopping shot being "so Ub3r" it appears that people are starting to discover the really powerful combinations now.


Gift.

BDragon
Tue May 17, 2005 5:58 am
#6


TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
If you mean Pistoleer at CL54 by itself... then yeah... you won't beat much of anything -- and neither would anyone else at CL54.



Well, if we compare pistoleer to the other 2 marksman elites, the first thing we notice is the range difference. Pistoleer disadvantage no.1. Second thing is the lower damage weapons, disadvantage no.2. We were intended to have much greater defence to make up for our range issues, we actually dont so i would call that number 3. Our only true advantage is our control abilities. But ask yourself this, id those moves can be used with a rifle or carbine then what advantage in battle do you have when holding a pistol? All you have are the disadvantages of less range and lower damage.....

So while i have no trouble in PvP or PvE i would be a fool to think that everything is rosey for pistoleers. Infact i know that if i didnt have MBH i wouldnt be doing half the things i can do in PvP or PvE. Maybe you dont agree but while i love that pistoleer can do some very nice things now and we have unique skills i feel that is almost ruined by this 'any move, any weapon' thing. It defies logic that you would allow the biggest weapons to use control moves designed to define a sidearm profession

Message Edited by BDragon on 05-17-2005 05:58 AM



Ulic' Dragonis: The jedi formerly known as Ulic' Qel-Droma
-Dark Jedi Knight-

Black-Dragon: +26 club
-Pistoleer at heart forever-


The darkside has made me strong.... the devs have made me weak

A new vision for the Lightsaber Tree
Nifty
Tue May 17, 2005 6:43 am
#7

every profession is dabbled now.


Look at your own template. You've got Master Pistols, some other master profession, and... you dabble in another profession.


Mastering a ranged weapon and BH (for example) leaves 52 points left over. Of course you are going to dabble after that. If you're using a rifle or carbine, then pistoleer is a good place to dabble.


The problem is that Master Pistoleer in terms of the specials doesn't feel like a significant improvement over 0/2/3/1 Pistoleer.





Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
BDragon
Tue May 17, 2005 6:54 am
#8


Nifty wrote:

every profession is dabbled now.

Look at your own template.





I have to politely disagree. Not every profession is dabbled in because other profession yeild greater rewards for mastering than pistoleer. Lets look at pre-CU, pistol tech was one of the most abused lines in the game. And if you were already a pistoleer is was BH pistols(expert BH/desperado).

Currently a pistol user tends to be one because we love pistol, simple as that. We'll get master pistoleer and then divide the rest of our skill into BH and smuggler - my template of choice is Pistoleer/MBH/Smuggler4000. A rifleman however will come into pistoleer, take a line or two and be able to perform our role as crowd control effectively enough that we arent needed and to make matters worse use tose moves that are meant to define us and deal more damage while performing them, making him better in PvE and PvP.

While every profession has the potential to be dabbled in, the reality is that pistoleer and smuggler are currently being raided by the guys with biger guns to get the unique abilities to stack with their greater damage while the real pistoleer is stuck with a smaller gun and less range. I see that as a problem.

Message Edited by BDragon on 05-17-2005 06:55 AM



Ulic' Dragonis: The jedi formerly known as Ulic' Qel-Droma
-Dark Jedi Knight-

Black-Dragon: +26 club
-Pistoleer at heart forever-


The darkside has made me strong.... the devs have made me weak

A new vision for the Lightsaber Tree
Nifty
Tue May 17, 2005 8:43 am
#9

I'm MP/MBH with CM 4/0/0/0. So I dabbled in CM. Uthyr dabbles in CM. Badger dabbles in Doctor and CM (I think. I'm not sure, he might have one of those mastered.) Others have said they are MP/MBH and SL 0/4/0/4 (I think this is the most common.) Others have taken carbineer to get the snare and increased accuracy. Not every rifle and carbine user has Pistols 0231. My friend is MR/MBH SL 0/4/0/4 and does just fine.


Dabbling is easy to fix. Make the Improved and Advanced moves significantly better than the regular moves. So sure, they can do with dabbling what we can do, but we'd do it significantly better.


However, that still doesn't solve this... Let's say I'm a Master Pistoleer, Master Rifleman, Master Marksman with some skills in other things. As a Master Pistoleer and Master Rifleman, I have access to both sets of specials (and at their highest effectiveness.) In this case, what is my motivation for using a pistol over a rifle, especially in fighting another person with the same template that is using a rifle? If they land a stopping shot outside the pistol range, I'm dead unless I switch to a rifle. It ain't the accuracy vs defense either. We get 40 pistol accuracy and 50 pistoldefense and the rifle gets 85 accuracy and 30 defense. We beat their defense by 10, and they beat ours by 35? Not only does their weapon have a higher max damage, they're going to be hitting for a higher percentage of that max damage. We'll hit faster, but will it be fast enough?





Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
BadgerSmaker
Tue May 17, 2005 8:59 am
#10

Yeah, I've been hooked on dabling with CM and Doctor for a while now.


The advantage of the pistol should be its speed... in your example, ideally the rifleman/pistoleerwould use the rifle when he wants to do large amounts of damage in slow burstsfrom long range, and he'd use the pistol to do large amounts of damage in quick succession at short range.


There are situations where both would be beneficial; in pvp for instance. If the target has medic then anylarge, slow bursts ofdamage from range would be healed over, but a quick succession of hits would stop the target from being able to heal fast enough. That should be the benefit of using a pistol.


In PvE, when grouped with my guildmates who mainly carry rifles, I get all the hate from the mobs from dumping my action on it... a fair bit of that hate may be due to my DoTs but in my book getting the hate from a mob means you are doing the most damage to it overall.


This is what makes me optimistic about the viability of Pistoleer.



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"BAD NPC SPAWNER IS HERE!, NO ENTRY IN NPC SPAWNERS DATATABLE"
GhostInAShell
Tue May 17, 2005 7:22 pm
#11

Well, I've been playing around with the CU a bit, and I've mixed Rifleman, Pistoleer, BH, and I've just started dabbling in Carbines. I was REALLY looking forward to rifles, but the fact is that even with Knee Cap I just couldn't kite/control my target as well as I'd like. I've now settled into MPistoleer/MBH, and I'm liking my bit of Carbineer 0300 I've picked up a LOT.


Here's the deal: In high-end PvE you really need speed. High damage is nice, but when you're up against a Krayt, you need to be able to adapt fast. Using my combo of skills I've been soloing Giant Canyon Krayts (CL86, I believe), and I would have taken down the Ancient I was up against if I hadn't gotten sloppy. Sure, I was using Leg Shot and AdvCrit as my biggest damage dealers, but I was using the SPEED of pistols to do them successfully. Furthermore, when my action got low I would lay down a Warning Shot to improve my damage and then use my standard Ranged Shot with my Scatter until I was charged up again. Even better, of course, is Stopping Shot, because I could take that time to apply foods, heal, or just rip in with my damage shots until the Krayt was on the move again. When it moved, I hit it with Crippling Shot from Carbineer, and when it got too close for whatever reason (often due to rubber-banding), I would use Disarming Shot to stop the damage, and then Underhand Shot from BH or Firearm Strike from Pistoleer to knock them down and give me some distance. With a decent pistol and a damage Pup, you can really lay into these big MOBs with very little danger to yourself. For kicks I tried using my rifle with a speed Pup (before I respeced into Carbs, so I was using Knee Cap and Head Shot), and I was killed very quickly. The reason for this is because I just couldn't move very fast, and I couldn't fire as fast either. I couldn't stay out of the attack range of the Krayt unless I just ran in one direction and prayed for nothing to go wrong. With a pistol I was dancing around the thing in a tight circle and all but TELLING it how I wanted it to behave.


Pistols are a trick-shot weapon. They're for moving fast, not dealing damage, and when you are in the business of control, moving fast is MUCH more important. Furthermore, when you are able to control well, you don't NEED the extra damage, because you can pretty much destroy the enemy at your leisure. Combine this with the generally low action cost of pistols, and you've got a deadly combination. Besides, with all the Krayts you'll be killing, you'll be able to build even more powerful guns in no time anyway.


Now I DO think Pistoleer could be improved. Swap Burst Shot with Crippling Shot from Carbineer, for one thing. Do we REALLY need to be aggroing 5-6 enemies at a time just to lay down a stun? Group control is the Carbine's job, give it to them. Besides, they already have Suppression Fire, which is an AoE Crippling Shot anyway from my understanding. I also agree that our Master box could use a little oomph, though AdvStopping Shot does seem to be quite a bit better against solo CL85+ MOBs than ImpStopping shot, but in all likelyhood it will be nerfed soon anyway. Regardless, Advanced moves could use a boost, or at least the Improved and Standards could use a nerf (likely a better course of action over all, and this applies to ALL Advanced attacks across the board in order to give people a good reason to take that last box).

Personally, I LOVE Pistoleer, and I never used it before the CU even though I've always been a pistols guy. Pistoleer was just too broken before, and now that I can enjoy it, I'm REALLY enjoying it. I never thought I'd see the day when I'd see someone soloing Krayts of all kinds with a Scatter Pistol, let alone that it would be me. We CAN do it, though, with a little dabbling in other professions. Get out there and slaughter some high-end loot critters, and make everyone jealous when you're hauling rare artifacts and prizes
aibo220
Tue May 17, 2005 11:17 pm
#12

Dabbling is done and now crucial to SWG.

I do not believe any combat professian ingame is useful without a second mastery. I have MP/MBH/0404 SL... MBH on it's own is useless as is MP.


The problem though is, Carbines and RM are at an advantage as they ALWAYS been. Only this time, they can steal what makes us special.

I always loved pistols and was able to make pistols work FOR me. From our specials to our variety of guns, pistols worked for me in both PvE and espeically in PvP. I loved our LP, Scatter, FWG, DE-10, Geo pistol, Torso Shot, Eye Shot, Health Shot, Last Ditch, Panic Shot, etc etc... It was all OURS. It is what made us special.

Also the fact that pistollers had 4 professians to choose from: Smuggler, BH, Pistoller and Commando. Now though... Now you can get MR or Carbs and steal the specials that should be what makes us unique and special.

IMO... The CD just degraded our professian farther as it did every professian. Nothing seperates anything apart anymore and professians are more reliant on each other now than ever.



"What a piece of 5|-|17 I returned to." [ Tiphini ]
/cough "Damn book." /cough

NaKitNa
Tue May 17, 2005 11:39 pm
#13



TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
I'm seeing these statements in multiple threads and I'm puzzled.
What are you fighting?
I can solo CL82 enraged Kimos and the only things in PvP I cannot beat are Jedi...
If you mean Pistoleer at CL54 by itself... then yeah... you won't beat much of anything -- and neither would anyone else at CL54.
So I'm asking. What're you fighting that you don't think Pistoleer does OKay as your only combat profession ( I say that 'cause I don't "kill" anyone with Doctor )?





What did you use to solo a raged kimo lvl 82? What happened when your stopping shot ran out? I have trouble taking one down with two people. I cant think of anything else to do to solo one. I would be very interested in knowing how to do this? I have tried hundreds of combinations of special without any overwhelming success. I have a terrbile time of getting anything to stick, aside from root. Honestly, I need some pointers here.

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