CUEmu - Thread Posts

lauranna

Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:44 am

Ok im starting a new thread....i want people opinion on how to break the "DEFENSE" template.

MY Opinion: I do not....I repeat do not think having a defense template is cheap, exploiting, or anything negative. Im a leader not a follower of the flavor of the month.

MY First Real PVP FIght:

Equipment : Full Suit Kinetic Comp Armor 76% Res to Kinetic (Thanks Taconator)

Adv Krayt Republic Blaster

Adv Pre-Nerf FWG5

Adv Launcher

Adv Tangle

Adv DX2

All weapons sliced and with powerup.

Buffed to the gills with doc stat buffs and vasarian brady x3 and some other food that buffs stats

Master Marksman

Scout Explorer 4

Unarmed 4

Master Pistoleer

Smuggler rouge tree

Novice Commando (god i love the launcher)

To sum it up:

See (1) Imp overt but he does not see me (figured i would get the jump on him, not like anybody wouldent do it)
Equip Krayt Republic
Stopping Shot = Dodge
Stopping Shot = Dodge
Stopping Shot = Dodge
Last Ditch - Dodge
Ok...hes got a defense template (crap he sees me now)
Run away and live to fight another day
Burst Run (hehe bye bye)
City Lag (doh...frozen for a good 30 sec)
Equip Launcher
Now hes on top of me in melee range
Low Blow (dodge or failed to knock down)
Low Blow (dodge or failed to knock down)
Low Blow (dodge or failed to knock down)
I get dizzy
He knocks me down
I cant get back up...and mauls me with a gaffe stick
He DB's me
I respawn...and tell him....good fight and i gotta find a way to beat that damn defense template and he tells me a couple of ways.

Here is what ive either heard or read about beating a defense template:

Warcry
Intimidate
Stun

Now does warcry and intimidate work well if your not a master brawler?
Should i have started the fight with the Tangle (Stun Damage) if so...is it really that effective?

DOES THE TANGLE PISTOL DEAL ONLY STUN DAMAGE OR DOES IT INDUCE THE STUN AFFECT...OR BOTH?

I would appreciate anyinput on this matter.

TEMPEST - Daminan Danzig
PVP Specialist
*RETIRED* Master Weaponsmith

BLOODFIN - Zarick Lotor
(Dark Army) Talus

LOWCA - Illiania Silvercross
House of Resources East of Kadaraa

TARQ - Lauranna De' Lioncourt

SilentJay1284

Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:48 am

#2

Well, lets begin with a small basic now: Mitigation 3 (both range and melee)

Once you have that. You have3 options for defense stackers:

Combat Medic Poisons

or

Unarmed Combo 2from TKA(it is SOOO BUGGED that it RARELY misses, dodge, block, etc)

I wonder if Multi Pistol attack works the same way....

Message Edited by SilentJay1284 on 02-23-2004 08:50 AM

Azu'Ran -Black Company (BC)-USaint of Killers U
Leave this dam game, leave this game and move to WoW when it
hits stores! !

Erillion

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:07 am

#3

Do any weapons with blast effect (commando ?) work well against defense stackers ?

I guess you cannot dodge an area effect blast.

have fun

Novarider Tam

Epukag

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:20 am

#4

from my experience:

1) tangle pistols only dish out "stun damage" not the stun effect. unlessthe special usedcausesstate changes.

2) Intimidate andwarcry are awesome PvP tools, Im always on the receiving end of them. I decided to drop novice Medicand trade forNovice Brawler because warcry is very powerful. Problem is - against a stacker its not going to land. They will havea high melee defense and likely better brawler skills than you.

3) my way to beatstacking is in ACCURACY. they may have high dodge/counterattack - but with master pistol, skill mods (+25), and the BH pistol tree I have 170 accurracy (not including foods), so the end result is they evade my shots alot less than before, and usally ask me how I did it.

\ AkMe /
(Master Armorsmith +26 Armor Experimentation | Assembly | Repair | +FS Experimentation)
~ AkMee Junior ~ - Master Pistoleer / Master Smuggler / TKM
@ AkMe Advanced Armor - Theed / Naboo -5435 , 3416 @
BUYING ACKLAY RIS SCHEMATICS AND YELLOW CUBES

Killtacular

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:24 am

#5

few things...you asked if you should have used a tangle pistol...well, if he was wearing armor yes...if not no....the tangle pistol will deal stun damage, but not give the stun affect

next, you said he was a fencer: odds are if he was doing alot of dodging that he also had some pistoleer...if that is the case, intimidate is hands down the move to use, that will drop his mods very low...you dont have to be a master brawler for this to be effective either

next, as a smuggler, you have an awesome move called panic shot...being able to delay an opponent for 10 seconds from a distance is very good

next, the stunned affect also will drop some defensive mods, and last ditch assault will do the trick for that

few other things....are you sure he used a gaffi stick. because if you were fully buffed and had full armor on, it should have taken a decent amount of time, and if you got the time, make sure you have /stand in your toolbar and are clicking that

and last cool little trick...if there were ANY type of hills around, being that you have good terrain neggotation, you should head there...most template stackers dont include any scout in theirs, and he would have had a tough time hitting you if he is crawling up the hill

i love fighting uber templates and hope they dont get fixed...it provides a great challenge to the game, and gives you players that everyone talks about...if they remove that, it will be like everyone is equal and would remove some of that challenge

bottom line is, they are still tough to fight but there are ways to make it a close match

=============== The Spectacular Killtacular ===============
=============== Conqueror of all that is Evil ===============
=============== Layin down the LAW ===============
=============== ===============

tometaophion

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:58 am

#6

After intimidate I immediately hit a defense stacker, then I did it again, and hit him another time then he dropped, after 2 minutes of trying while he stood there.

Yakisoba1

Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:57 am

#7

This is a good thread. Tag for later.

I have to add the warcry and intimidate moves back in. Have not used them since getting UA4 for Smuggler. Do they work with a pistol or other ranged weapon equipped? Should you build a macro that removes the pistola, does the move and restores the pistol? What order would you experienced PvP folks recommend for fighting stackers, while we have to (TH reports a partial solution to stacking is in patch 7)

--Yak

Killtacular

Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:23 pm

#8

warcry and intimidate can be used with any weapon equipped...melee or ranged

=============== The Spectacular Killtacular ===============
=============== Conqueror of all that is Evil ===============
=============== Layin down the LAW ===============
=============== ===============

KnightHawk420

Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:31 pm

#9

Important to note warcry and intimidate are not affected by either melee/ranged defenses nor secondary defenses such as dodge.

You cannot miss a warcry, or an intimidate. You can only resist it's effects. And get some BE enhancements to enhance those 2 and your opponent won't be doing much resisting either.

Forget about defense dodge stacking. Dodge either in pistoleer or fencer does plenty on it's own unstacked. You could get those exact same results if the person just had fencer. Dodge works well all by itself, no stacking required.

Cheylin Mena - R.I.P.
Menon Mena - R.I.P.
Hunglo Bavmador - R.I.P.

Blankgrun

Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:46 pm

#10

Hey Lauranna, a fellow Tempest native here.

To answer your question, you need to make a few major modifications.

One, the most hardcore PvE gun is typically not the best PvP gun. As someone mentioned earlier, damage mitigation reduces those typically hardcore PvE guns because it reduces the range of the damage a weapon can do. For an FWG5, the prior 50-190 (just an example) gets cut down alot more than the 90-150 DH17 Pistol by a person with ranged mitigation. So essentially, for a pistol in PvP, the highest minimum damage will be your most reliable gun. If you want to analyze your weapons more in depth, check out the stickied post in this forum about damage mitigation. It also shows up in the Pistoleer FAQ as a link. To this end, the DX2 is a solid gun for PvPing, as it has a high minimum damage and has armor piercing. (However, its accuracy may be a problem, which will be discussed next)

Two, don't worry about getting the high damage weapon, worry about having one with accuracy to break apart a defense template. Defenses are compared directly with accuracy when determining a hit, so its best to try and stay at your most accurate weapon's ideal range during the fight. It can be very difficult to manage, but you will see alot more hits land if you're firing at your ideal range with a highly accurate weapon. (Also, if you're still having problems hitting, don't walk or run, it reduces your accuracy even more)

Three, Stun effect is your friend. If you land a stun, it drastically reduces a person's ability to defend. Unfortunately pistoleers don't get a stun attack, to my knowledge. You may want to consider getting a class that does or travelling with one of those classes to make a stun attack (Carbine, Rifle, and Pike all have stun attacks). A stunned defensive stack is utterly useless and will be easy to dismantle, since most of the time, they suffer from relatively poor DPS. (In the case of fencer/pistoleer) Of course, you need to hit that person the first time, so refer back to the prior paragraph for that initial hit. Bear in mind that there's a difference between stun damage type and stun effects, so just keep that in mind.

As for intimidate, it works to reduce damage done by an enemy, so it won't be helpful in beating a defense stacker. However, it will make the fight last longer.. Not being a master brawler, I couldn't tell you how often it sticks, but you also have the option of getting BE clothing that will increase your chances.

As for stun damage, it bypasses all armor that doesn't have a stun layer, so that 76% kinetic composite is useless if someone's using a stun type weapon. So, in PvP, stun damage is golden, especially for a pistoleer who lacks that huge damaging weapon and high Armor Piercing.

In conclusion, I'd recommend getting an accuracy-focused tangle pistol and try to keep at the ideal range, kiting only if necessary. I also would mention that the fight you describe isn't an easy one. Defense stackers are difficult and very powerful.

I hope the hints and tips help though.

Killtacular

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:36 am

#11

intimidate doest just lower the damage done...it dramatically decreases most defensive mods....

=============== The Spectacular Killtacular ===============
=============== Conqueror of all that is Evil ===============
=============== Layin down the LAW ===============
=============== ===============

lauranna

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:46 am

#12

Thanks for the responds....extremely usefull....

From the info ivebeen gathering......

Im heading up the BH tree to get that extra pisol acc and speed points to add onto master pistoleer

Getting a sick tangle pistol to use (sliced and powerup) Eyeshot with a tangle does not sound bad right through that 75% Acid Res comp armor like Butta

Can anyone comment on the Tangle Pistol / Eye Shotcombo???

TEMPEST - Daminan Danzig
PVP Specialist
*RETIRED* Master Weaponsmith

BLOODFIN - Zarick Lotor
(Dark Army) Talus

LOWCA - Illiania Silvercross
House of Resources East of Kadaraa

TARQ - Lauranna De' Lioncourt

Epukag

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:33 am

#13

lauranna wrote:

Can anyone comment on the Tangle Pistol / Eye Shotcombo???

Its very effective! Will be even MORE effective after publish 7

Only downside is Vasarian Brandy is pretty common now, and half the peeps I fight now have 2-4k in mind with high regens. But the BH speed / accuracy makes up for it.

Oh and get one one of the new Geonosian Sonic blasters - forget the tangle. The new ones have higher damage (unsliced) , some have embedded skill mods. A big damage sliced Sonic blaster is the PvP wep of choice now.

\ AkMe /
(Master Armorsmith +26 Armor Experimentation | Assembly | Repair | +FS Experimentation)
~ AkMee Junior ~ - Master Pistoleer / Master Smuggler / TKM
@ AkMe Advanced Armor - Theed / Naboo -5435 , 3416 @
BUYING ACKLAY RIS SCHEMATICS AND YELLOW CUBES

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