Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Tracking down accuracy woes
biwan:
Randonb wrote:
Some people are expressing concerns with our accuracy in "Recompiling the Top 5 Issues." I would like to track down exactly why, as this isn't an issue we talk about very often in this forum. It may or may not make it into the Top 5 list. I want to collect more information first. How do you feel about:
1) Accuracy in PvE I think it is fine - I rarely have a problem hitting mobs in the game.
2) Accuracy in PvP Since the defense stacking nerf, it hasnt been a real problem. I can hit other players fairly regularly.
3) Accuracy vs Defense Stackers Prior to the last patch, I would say this was a huge problem. So much to the point that I was forced to regularly use /aim before many of my specials. Since the patch however, I dont think this is nearly as big of a deal.
Some things to consider:
1) What is your skill level? The marksmanship line is typically the last one that people climb. How far through are you?
Master Pistoleer
2) Is this a problem with our accuracy, or is this a problem with PvP? Defenses, buffs, armor, etc.
No problem here
3) Are you utilizing ideal range and still having problems?
Most of the time, yes.
4) Do you feel this is a Top 5 Issue?
No
Please be as thorough as possible. Answering in this format would be ideal, as it is easy for me to analyze. I don't want to come off as skeptical - if this is a concern, then it's a concern. The thing is, I'm not hearing many complaints in our forum regarding accuracy outside of that thread. I need more information, and I need it fast. Thunderheart told us today that he would like to have our new Top 5 by April 9th. I'll be writing up a couple seperate drafts on my computer in the meantime. If this turns out to be a big Pistoleer problem, it could make it into the list. I'm not making any promises though.
I encourage people to post regardless of whether they are experiencing the issue or not.
REPLY ..............
Hisler wrote:
I agree that rifles should get more accuracy mods than us, but the fact that they get more speed mods is just sick... they may not like it, but something NEEDS to be done.
REPLY ..............
Why Should RIFLEMEN get more accuracy ???? Have you looked at your weapon lately ???? All ranged classes should have the same stinking accuracy......
Pistols + at close range .... - at long range
Carbines 0 or - at close range + intermediate range and 0 or - at long range
Rifles - at close range and - at long range .....
That is the deciding factor in accuracy bro the weapon ....... But as it is with a 180 accuracy and your pathetic 110 accuracy rifleman can even beat you standing in your face because thier two hit is still better than yours .... Considering the fact that they have 70 more points of accuracy than you do ..... I could even understand that pistoler was designed to match up with smuggler, commando, or bounty hunter .... But as of now commando has 0 pistol mods also smuggler has 0 mods .. Hell Bounty hunter the best you can hope for is 155 accuracy whereas a rifleman still has you beat by 25 points but they still got more points to spend so they can stack more defenses onto thier already super offensive class.....
As of now rifleman is the most offensive class in the game and has the most accuracy .... Fensers only get 155 at master and thats with brawler .... The defenses are better than a pistoler also ...... So if you go rifleman you can also stack pistoler and maybe tka for the most defensive and most offensive combo in the game ......
Point is a rifleman is a SNIPER its not a close combat profession so why on earth do they have any melee defense ..... this is how it should be .....
Pistoler 50 melee defense and 110 dodge
Carbiner 25 melee defense and 25 ranged defense + 110 counter attack
Rifleman 50 ranged defense and 110 block ......
Now wouldnt that make more sense .......... I'm talking about what is fair than fair ....... Pistolers and carbiners have all taken a back seat to this class ..... The most popular template btw is rifleman + some tka + fenser .....
The other day one rifleman named -Solo- came into the imperial outpost after the defense nerf and killed like 4 or 5 imps by himself and didnt even get a scratch on him .... I was point blank as a master commando with a flamethrower and I missed ..... Also spaming fan shot I missed every stinkin time about 30 times in a row at medium to close range ........ while on the other hand the other day when i got bounty hunter pistols 4 I smoked a stinkin rifleman template jerk because my accuracy was 155 not a stinkin 110 .........
Also Speed mods is totaly pathetic ....... If the lowest time per attack being 1 second and you max it out in no time with pistols that fire as fast as 2 or 3 seconds ......... Pistols 1 have no armor penetration and are supposed to be real fast giving a pistoler an advantage in speed to make up in dps for what is lacking in weapon damage ...... Rifleman on the other hand have high damage rifles which are slow but at master level still fire at one second ...... What is the problem here ...... The speed calculations need to be hard capped .....
Rifles should be high damage but slow speed
Carbines Medium damage at medium speed
pistols low damage at fast speeds
Rifles should fire once every 3 seconds ........
Carbines once every 2 seconds .....
Pistols once every one second ........
Another point if Duel Wielding Pistols was introduced I really wouldnt have a hard time with the low accuracy ....... but it should be the same accross the board untill I equip that pistol..... And as far as im concerned duel wielding should be a smuggler trait and not a pistoler trait ..........
Actually, I think the pistoleer should get maybe 25 melee and 25 ranged defense, carbineer 15 melee and 35 ranged, and riflemen 50 ranged.
Also, maybe a solution to accuracy would be to put in short range accuracy for pistoleer, medium range accuracy for carbineer, and long range accuracy for riflemen? So, a pistoleer would have excellent short range accuracy, be worse at medium range, and suck at long range. Riflemen would have excellent long range, be worse at medium range, and suck at short range. Carbineers would be excellent at medium range, and a bit worse at short and long range than pistoleers and riflemen would be at their medium range, but also a bit better than riflemen and pistoleers are at their worst ranges.
And why should dual wielding be a smuggler trait? 
Accuracy is a HUGE problem for us and carbineers as well.
Here are the reasons why.
1. rifleman are more accurate at all ranges than a master pistoleer or carbineer
2.RIfleman are more accurate at point blank range than a master pistoleer, avg t-21 is something like -70@0m while avg dx2 is something like -90@64m and has a small negative @ 0m.
3. This equates to the master rifleman still possessing +90 accuracy @0m while a pistoleer will have around 70 to 85 accuracy @0m and a grand total of 5 accuracy @64m. A rifleman @64m tends to have +70 to +85 accuracy bonus on top of his already 160 accuracy making him VERY accurate @64m, np there rifleman should rule at long range, however a rifleman as i have shown is more accurate @ all ranges than any other ranged profession because they possess so much raw accuracy( 160 total) while their weapons still have range mods that were designed to balance rifleman when they only possessed +90 accuracy. Bottom line the devs overcompensated rifleman woes and accidentally made carbineers and pistoleers severely lacking in comparison at their ideal ranges and more lacking still at our max ranges. We all could compete much better against rifleman if they had -150@0m and -100@16m . This would put more balance back into the game with this simple change alone, no rifle should be more accurate than a pistol or a carbine @ that profession's ideal range. PERIOD.
Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-01-2004 02:05 AM
Oh and this is still a problem even if you are a master marksman/master pistoleer, a simple master rifleman will still be more accurate at all ranges.
oh and i am:
Pistoleer : Master
Smuggler: Master
Tk: 0/0/0/4
fencer: 1/0/0/0
medic: 2/0/0/0
Been a Master pistoleer since September 2003
Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-01-2004 02:06 AM
There's no reason for this to turn into the Rifleman hate thread. While I sympathize (I am in the same boat, after all) , I am more interested in our accuracy difficulties, not how little trouble riflemen are having. Please keep this on topic and constructive for Pistoleers. Comparisons are fine, but when it takes on an acid tone we start to lose focus. It isn't getting bad yet, but I wanted to get a word in preemptively.
It isn't easy for me to go to the developers and say "Our accuracy stinks, because riflemen have more." I don't even have to ask, because the response would be "Okay, but are you having trouble hitting targets that you should be able to?" We need an answer to that question. So far I'm hearing "sometimes, and it isn't fair because other people cut right through defenses." That's certainlya concern,and I'd like to get more responses to help figure out the action to take.
In the mean time, if you are a Ranged Defense stacker on Scylla who wants to help me test this, my PM box is open.
Thanks.
accuracy is only a problem vs defence stackers.
our main problem is the specials.
we have NO status altering specials.
if we had one blind, or one dizzy....or stun...effecting special things would look alot diffrent.
that said,
accuracy should NOT be on our top 5, but, special shots and speed should defenently be in our top 5.
yours Joubei.
Message Edited by Joubei_businessman on 04-01-2004 02:58 AM
Yes I have a problem with accuracy and it doesnt need to be fixed on the weapon side ... As far as I'm concerned Pistoler has the shortest stick in the whole game .... Why dont you people whom don't have any problems with the class play Fenser for a month or so and see the comparison ... Or play any melee class or any ranged class besides pistoler or a pistoler varient .....
# 1 Problem ACCURACY is ABHORENT ........... 110 accuracy is the best to hope for at Master Marksman and Master Pistoler
while our white sheep brothers the riflemen get 180 with the same skill points expended ..... Total damage output doesnt mean squat if you cant hit your target in pvp or pve ...... Why settle for the crumbs you have been given when you can eat cake with the other ranged professions ... The deciding factor should be the weapon point blank .... All things need to be fair .....
# 2 Damage Per Second is a Joke ................ Like I said play another class and see the difference our specials are a joke and dont hit for alot of damage ....... I hate hitting specials over and over and over and over and over and over on one mob ...... while on the other hand as a Fenser a mob of the comparible level went down so fast it was a joke ..... or swordsman for the same matter .... Doing Carbiner I'm toasting mobs so fast its a joke .... Our Damage should be low but our weapon speeds are supposed to be fast ..... How are we doing comparible damage when a carbiner or a rifleman can still hit every second just like us?
I'm not asking for a nerf on other classes I'm asking for what is fair .............. Follow the design you have put forth in your weapons make the range the deciding factor for accuracy not the class ....... The total damage you do does not mean a thing if you cant hit your target ...... BTW to those of you that say you have no problems in pve wouldnt be alot better if you could hit a moving target ...... Why sell yourself short ............
Point is fix the specials make em work ....................
Get rid of the evade animation .............
Fix our weapons and design them for accuracy at low range...........
Bring all the defenses of other classes in line and do a dps balance .............
And bring our accuracy into focus ..... I see no reason that I have to become a bounty hunter with pistol 4 to be able to hit someone in pvp such as a rifleman ...
Why should a Rifleman have 180 Accuracy while and Equivalant Pistoler with MM and MP only get 110 accuracy plus the gimped
accuracy mods on our weapons ...............
is it really a problem? i'm not a pistoleer, but i've mastered damned near every other combat profession, and the only one i really had trouble hitting with is carbines. if those guys want to complain about accuracy, they have a right to.. it's horrible. I haven't done pike yet either, but i hear the same things there.
anyway, i purchased accuracy experimented guns during the defense stacker days... why don't they do the same? (i'll also admit that i think pistoleers are completely gimped on specials, not having many that are effective or desirable. more to the point, i think they're real problem is SPEED. they'd be fine w/ stopping shot for DPS if they didn't have such lousy speed mods.)
It will be a hot ticket if it's brushed on from the DEVS when they show me their plans for Rifleman.
I have my arsenal of notes ready to go to preserve our profession and substain reasonable changes. 