Pistoleer Archive
Thread: *insert insane babbling here* BH vs. Pistoleer
Ok, this is pointless, BH vs. Pistoleer.
BH's, what the majority of Pistoleers mean (I THINK) about being stronger than a BH, is that they should be strongerINA PISTOL FIGHT WITH A BH.
Yes BH's you are right, Pistoleers use less skill points, but they sink those points into complete and total mastery of a single weapon type, whereas the BH weapon trees are merely extensions of the Marksman tree.
I think most BH are taking this issue way too seriously, probably because a lot of Pistoleers use the term "stronger" without explaining what they meanbyit.
Personally when I think of a Pistoleer being stronger than a BH, I mean ifthey're both using PISTOLS, not in general.
Probably not, but I hope some of the misconception on this issue has been put to rest.
I just don't get it...
How could anyone say BH are weak, or good they way they are with pistol skills??? At master Pistoleer, our pistol speed is 49. At bounty pistol 4, yeah not even master, they get 50 pistol speed. I don't know if oyu understand what that means. I'll explain it.. That an eyeshot like 2 or 3 time a second. Yeah, 2 or 3 times a second, notwith a crappy dx2 butwith a1.3 speed or less scatter pistol.. Top that off with a nice powerup and it's almost unstoppable.that's almost 600 damage per second to mind... How is this not over powered? Why is there even a mind attack for a pistol in the game period??
With a powerup, my fwg5 is 332 damage, and i still can't take the eye shot spam. Even though my doubletap hits for 400 action damage(in pvp), it's not enough. Something needs to be done. NO, a bounty hunter shouldn't be able to beat a pistoleer with a pistol. He shouldn't be able to beat a carbineer with a carbine, or a rifleman with a rifle. A BH should have to use a carbine to take a pistoleer, a pistol to take a rifleman.. You get the idea. Why shouldn't my elite profession be better than a hybrid? I'm the effing master of pistols and get my azz handed to me with a pistol by a hybrid.. Not sure if your aware, but hybrids have always had a skill penalty associated with being a hybrid.. It's to stop them from being gods.. There's already too many bounty hunters. Things like this just make more and add to uniformity and boring gameplay.. I don't want to have to switch to BH.. But on bloodfin it may come to this.
BH IS NOT AN ELITE PROFESSION, IT'S A HYBRID!!!!
At master marksman you get +10 to pistol spped and +5 to pistol accuracy. that is avaliable to anyone.
As for pistol speed, you can not go faster than a 1 second. you could have +100 to pistol speed, and the pistol could be a 1.2. but it will still only fire as a 1.0 pistol. No one can fire faster than that. it just looks like people do because sometimes the firing animation has three or four shots to it. but that doesnt mean the gun is firing faster. it is just a slightly different animation.
As for the eye shot spam, most BH out there are using Scatters. those are AR1 weapons. an FWG5 is not. which means if the person you are firing at has armor, your FWG5 is going to do 25% less damage than either a scatter or DX2. And the AR1 weapons are doing full damage to someone with armor. 50% more damage to someone who doesnt have armor on. so if your not wearing a helmet, my Scatters base damage is 225. thats just the base damage. it will hit for 500-600 against a none armored opponent.
I mean honestly, if you look at a true master BH, and a true master pistoleer, the pistoleer is far far better with a pistol in his hands. I dont know why people dont understand that. a BH may have a bit more accuracy, he may have a bit more speed. the speed, I have shown, means little, the accuracy only really applies to stationary targets. move a bit. then your modifiers to accuracy while moving come into effect.
And that line about the power of your pistol, and not taking eye shot spam makes no sense. could you clarify that. how does the power of your gun effect how much damage you can take? Get your modifiers fixed. then talk to me how overpowered the BH is. take a look at what may or may not be working for you. heres the modiers each class gets:
Bounty Hunter-
+70 to accuracy
+55 to Speed
+12 to ranged defense
Now lets look at the pistoleer-
+45 to accuracy
+49 to speed
+7 to ranged defense
+30 to dodge
+30 accuracy while moving
+15 to accuracy while standing
+13 to melee defense
+20 defense vs stun
+20 defense vs blind
+20 defense vs dizzy
+20 defense vs posture change
+30 defense vs Knockdown
Now, mind you the accuracy while moving and general accuracy should stack for pistoleers. so if your moving, you actually have better accuracy than a BH. tell me, how is the BH better with a pistol?
"tell me, how is the BH better with a pistol?"
It's quite simple man. If your incapacitated in 2 seconds or less, all those skills, mods, defences mean absolutely nothing... NOTHING!! Not to mention the eyeshot causes blind which effects accuracy.. So, if you have some devine wisdom on how to use all those skills and better defence while i'm laying on the ground with no mind and can't be healed, please feel free to share it with us. Also you still didn't address the larger issue, why is there a mind attack for a pistol user?? Mind attacks are supposed to be the "rifleman's only advantage", yet the bounty hunter gets mind attacks with a pistol??
Where are the pistoleer mind attacks located?
"So your saying a master pistoleer is basically gimped in combat? that they cant take an opponent down in two seconds either? "
No, i'm saying a BH is over powered in combat becuase they can. I also find it nice you aviod the issue of mind damage coming form a pistol user.. I don't fault you for this. It's the devs fault and has no business in the tree to begin with. This should be in rifleman tree...
The mind damage in the pistol tree is to make up for it not being in the LLC tree. we do have to get to the top of the rifle line in marksman, but never have a real use for the rifle again. so they gave us mind damage in the pistol tree.
So let me understand what your saying. both a pistoleer and a BH can take someone out in 2 seconds. but the pistoleer isnt overpowered wereas the BH is.
I saw a pistoleer pistolwhip an AT-ST to the ground. is that fair? is that even possible? is that overpowered?
A riflemen can take an opponent out in two hits.
a carbineer can take an opponent out in two hits.
a pistoleer can take an opponent out in two hits.
a TKA can take an opponent out in two hits.
a Bounty Hunter can take an opponent out in two hits.
if all that is possible, why focus on the Bh alone? I mean, its obvious you want to have pistoleer be the all powerful uber class. but why just focus on the BH? why not gripe about every profession. that way they can nerf everything but pistoleer and you will have your all powerful uber class.
How can your pistolwhip have a range of 10 meters? thats thirty feet. there is no way in hell anyone is going to beat down another person with the butt of a gun at thirty feet. pistolwhip should be only be able to work inside of 2 meters. but that will never happen.
your modifiers dont work. ok, get that corrected. I havent seen a single post asking for the modifiers getting fixed. I would be screaming for them to work. they are amazing bonuses. but instead you whine about a single profession have a little more speed and accuracy.
"The mind damage in the pistol tree is to make up for it not being in the LLC tree. we do have to get to the top of the rifle line in marksman, but never have a real use for the rifle again. so they gave us mind damage in the pistol tree." -Random
Again we need to point out that BH as a hybrid profession has better shots and get them sooner then an Elite profession such as pistoleer.
"So let me understand what your saying. both a pistoleer and a BH can take someone out in 2 seconds. but the pistoleer isnt overpowered wereas the BH is." - Random
So far I've never taken anyone out in 2 seconds even before the pvp 75% damage patch. The over powered issure is directed mainly at BH's Eyeshot andKnockdown shots. Pistoleers spend pitol exp into the millions of points, dwarfing the actual number of experience BH's use. BH's it seems should be somewhat good with all weapons, notsomewhat good with all weapons plus Pistol gods. Pistoleers have to wait until Master Pistoleer before we even see a knockdown shot and we have no mind damage shots. Even though I'm also a doctor, it means absolutley nothing vs eyeshot, my mind is gone before I can even think to use it.BH's gerenally use this tactic, knockdown shot, eyeshot, eyeshot and I'm dead. Even when I can manage to sic my pet on them, i'm still dead first.
"I saw a pistoleer pistolwhip an AT-ST to the ground. is that fair? is that even possible? is that overpowered?"
I've seen smugglers knockdown shot rancors and gurreks, as I've seen BH's knockdown atst's as well. It looks rather funny but that's about it. I believe it's game design issue. Why should small arms fire knockdown something the size of King Kong? Let a lone a pistol whip.
"A riflemen can take an opponent out in two hits." - yes but his two shots can take up to 8 seconds to get off! The only advantages rifles get is range, and mind damage.
"a carbineer can take an opponent out in two hits." - Possibly if his opponent can't heal themselves.
"a pistoleer can take an opponent out in two hits." - Possibly if his opponent can't heal themselves.
"a TKA can take an opponent out in two hits." - I've never once seen a pure TKA win in pvp, i've heard of it happening, but it's very rare. Unless the TKA is very smart and hides in buildings where her opponents must come close to engage, then TKA useless in pvp. Sad but true 
"a Bounty Hunter can take an opponent out in two hits." - This is probably your only accurate account. BH's not only have the shot speed of pistols ala MasterPistoleer then also have the mind damage of Riflemen. This is the only statement I'd agree with Random. BH's can take other players in 2 or three shots. ALl BH's have this macro...
/knockdownshot
/eyeshot
/eyeshot
/emote gloats maniacally over your corpse.
"if all that is possible, why focus on the Bh alone? I mean, its obvious you want to have pistoleer be the all powerful uber class. but why just focus on the BH? why not gripe about every profession. that way they can nerf everything but pistoleer and you will have your all powerful uber class."
Your right about one thing. I want to see BH's nerfed big time. Right now we currently have a million Boba Fetts running around. Secondly for some wierd reason, BH's are better with pistols than a Master Pistoleer? Just a little rationality is all ask. No one who spends half their life learning a trade such as BH should be better then someone who's spent their entire life with one weapon. Master Riflemen should own BH's and all other hybrid classes with rifles, Master Carbiners should own all other hybrid classes with carbines, a Master Pistoleer should own all other hybrid classes with pistols, etc etc. It sounds more like you really like the idea of being an overpowered BH and would prefer all the other classes remain crappy.
"How can your pistolwhip have a range of 10 meters? thats thirty feet. there is no way in hell anyone is going to beat down another person with the butt of a gun at thirty feet. pistolwhip should be only be able to work inside of 2 meters. but that will never happen."
Come on now, Pistol whip is our only half decent not broken attack pistoleers get, after that we have to wait until master pistoleer for our first knockdown shot. How can you complain about our pathetic pistol whip when you can knock us down at 60meters! That's just hypocrytical of you.
"your modifiers dont work. ok, get that corrected. I havent seen a single post asking for the modifiers getting fixed. I would be screaming for them to work. they are amazing bonuses. but instead you whine about a single profession have a little more speed and accuracy."
Actually if you really read the pistoleer threads, we have asked many times to have modifiers fixed as well as our broken shots, which is like most of them. In addition to asking for our fixes in the profession we also want what's due us, that is to be Pistol Masters, hence the title. So yes BH's need to lose the mind shot to even it up for rifleman, why should BH's get mind damage, a riflemens only advantage, plus be able to do that mind damage with the speed of a pistol. There really isn't any good argument I've heard to explain why BH's should be such good killers, please enlighten us Random.
Gloria... heh.... no
I can't say I agree with everything random said, he put a lot of words in peoples mouths. But you just are talking like a complete idiot. No offense intended. This argument, ALL these arguments have been said before, and you are very uniformed. You say you have yet to do a lot off things, so why post your opinion on things that you don't know jack about?
Yet another person acting like a group of people is a single individual "ALL bhs have this macro" PFT, very stupid (yes, stupid) statement. You want a BH nerfed? Yay!!! One born every minute.