Pistoleer Archive
Thread: 6 Million Dollar Pistoleer: We can rebuild you.
1. Fix stat mods, get rid of redundent ones.
With the speed of pistols, we only need +50 or +60 to cap our speed on just about every pistol type if decently made. Take the 40-50 speed mod points and turn them into something else. Possibly more status change defense or melee defense. If we are the supposed to be the best pistol users and close combat, then give us the defenses to live up close. This would give us a better chance to use our PB skills. Of course, make the stat mods actualy work. It is a huge slap in the face to play a character with so many defensive stat mods and have none of them work.
2. Disarming shot1/2
Changedisarming shot1 into a 3 second stun with a 2.5X damage multiplier. Make disarming shot2 an AoE stun lasting 2 seconds with no damage multiplier. This is assuming that stun has a timer now. Another route would be to make disarming shots unequip your weapons, but this seems a little pointless. A master level skill should be more of a minor inconvenience.
3. Multi-target shot
Um, make it hit multiple targets. Currently broken.
4. Double tap
Make this hit 2 HAMs at once for a multiplier of 2.0 to each HAM pool.
5. Fan shot
Make this fire3 times at the health and action pool with a damage mod of 1.5 for each hit. This would leave a chance to score a tripple hit on one pool.
6. Pistol melee defense2
Reduced HAM cost slightly increased damage version of pistol melee defense1.
7. Body shot3
Reduce the speed so that it is just slightly slower than body shot2. Same should probably be done for legshot3, but I don't know about headshot3. Seeing as how headshot3 attacks only the mind pool, this may be to much.
8. Stopping shot
The description of this attack betrays its effect. While it may do good damage, it is a great deal slower than other specials that do around the same damage. Keep the delay, make the damage mod from 0.1X - 10.0X. Meaning sometimes you would only hit for10% of your weapons base damage, and others you could get10 times the damage of your weapon. In PvP, the best theoretical hit would still not one shot anyone with a decent HAM or if they had resists to the damage. Also you have to take into account, for this to do really high damage, you would have to both get a good base hit off your weapon and a good multiplier. Not only that, but the delay would make this a very risky special, that could pay off as a last ditch effort. With a good FWG5, this attack could range from 5-2500 damage.
9. DX2
Currently bounty hunters have access to the scatter pistol, which is very similar to the DX2. They both do acid damage and are AR1. However, the scatter pistols speed anddamageare far better than any pistol used by a pistoleer. The DX2 needs to have a speed and damage increase. It is already fairly inaccurate, but being slow and low damage is just not acceptable for the highest certed pistoleer weapon. Maybe change the DX2 completly. Make it an extremly slowpistol that hits very hard. Best possible stats maybe around 3.5 140-250. Also the crafting requirements need relaxed a good ammount to allow even decent examples of these pistols to be made.The tangle pistol, SR combat pistol, and republic blaster and royal blaster serve no purpose, and need to be looked at. Generaly, most pistoleers use FWG5s for PvP, and scout blasters for PvE. Some just use FWG5s all the time. A very few actualy bother with DX2s. Right now the best I can geta DX2 is 100-203 at 2.7 speed sliced and powered up. With the AR bonus this is 125-250. Unless what you are fighting has serious heat resists, the FWG5 is a much better choice at 70-300 at 2.0 speed sliced and powered up. Most PvP armor is vulnreble to heat as well.
I think when pistoleers were asking to be comparable to bounty hunters, it was not explained very well. Right now bounty hunters use the best damaging pistol and the most dangerous pistol attack. It is pretty simple, they use a better weapon with a better attack. Pistoleers should be known for the best pistol attacks or atleast the best pistol. Bounty hunters can't be ignored when pistoleers are fixed because alot of bounty hunters dabble in pistoleer. I am sorry it has to be this way, but bounty hunters need to give up their obscene damage with eye shot if pistoleers are ever to be fixed. Imagine what a bounty hunter could do if pistoleers were like I am describing now? The only way to fix pistoleers fairly is to bring bounty hunters down. This is because by making pistoleers more powerful, you indirectly make bounty hunters more powerful. Maybe the really good bounty hunter attacks need to be for master bounty hunters only. This would help the problem that there is no need to master bounty hunting, while being able to fix pistoleers fairly.
Just trying to get a constructive post going listing possible changes that need to be made. If anyone can think of any other ideas or things that should be addressed, then please post them. If you are a trolling bounty hunter and you can't offer any comments worth reading, go away. I hope we can fix this classbefore everyone gives up on it. I already know of and heard of quite a few people that surrendered pistoleer due to not wanting to wait months before we are functional.
RhysMarantz wrote:
1. Fix stat mods, get rid of redundent ones.
With the speed of pistols, we only need +50 or +60 to cap our speed on just about every pistol type if decently made. Take the 40-50 speed mod points and turn them into something else.
I'm very opposed to removing any Pistol Speed. We may not need all 74 to max out regular shots on most pistols but you need even more than 74 to reduce Stopping Shot to 1 shot per second on most pistols. With additional specials getting added in the future, I'd like as much Pistol Speed as I can get.
Also, as anaside,I didn't think the Scatter was acid? I dunno, but I thought I remember it being something else...
I've seen a high quality T-21 get an awesome slice from a Master Smuggler and get the speed below 6...
So they can fire pretty darn fast in the right hands...
I'm pretty sure accuracy when moving and vs. moving is gonna get nerfed in the next update, to help the melee guys mainly.
I have no beef with doubletap and fanshot (well, I don't have fanshot yet).
Stopping shot is also basically okay. Although it would be neat if it slowed the movement speed of the target for like, one second, just so they'd know they got hit by it. 
Melee Defense 2. Yeah, I guess it should keep the knockdown, although, once they nerf knockdown again, it might be useful to have a low-ham high-damage move that only works at 5m range. But I'd probably lean towards knockdown +stun (or some other state effect)
The DX2 is still crazy useful (for instance, the entire planet of Lok), and it seems there are some pretty decent ones on my server (although i can't buy one right now). Since the resources are rare, i think this is one of those weapons where each server has a very different story. Plus, I think the scatter pistol is energy or kinetic or blast or something isn't it?
Scatter pistol is ar1 acid. HAM cost avg ard the same but Higher Dmg & more wound %.
Rhys,
1. Fix stat mods, get rid of redundent ones.
With the speed of pistols, we only need +50 or +60 to cap our speed on just about every pistol type if decently made. Take the 40-50 speed mod points and turn them into something else. Possibly more status change defense or melee defense. If we are the supposed to be the best pistol users and close combat, then give us the defenses to live up close. This would give us a better chance to use our PB skills. Of course, make the stat mods actualy work. It is a huge slap in the face to play a character with so many defensive stat mods and have none of them work.
I'm personally not keen on using a ranged profession with point blank attacks as our bread and butter...I'd rather see something like 32m attacks that are actually useful.There's no reason I'd usePB single over fan, it's too risky to have to see "target out of range" IMO. I want to be moving and firing, I don't want to have to get within hitting distance of a polearm or 2H sword just to use my ranged attacks. That's just my take. Defenses..area thorn in everyone's side. Speed, speed over 50 or 60 is indeed useful, depending on what attack you use and what your weapon speed is. You didnt stack the attack delay with the weapon speed maybe?
2. Disarming shot1/2
Changedisarming shot1 into a 3 second stun with a 2.5X damage multiplier. Make disarming shot2 an AoE stun lasting 2 seconds with no damage multiplier. This is assuming that stun has a timer now. Another route would be to make disarming shots unequip your weapons, but this seems a little pointless. A master level skill should be more of a minor inconvenience.
I agree, the master level skill should be more than an inconvinience.But Iget stunned by mobs all the time and never notice it hindering me, personally, intimidate seems to hurt the most (other than other KD effects like dizzy), it reduces my damage output by quite a bit. What's stun doing that makes it good to request? Reduces defense?With defenses broken, I'd rather see some other effect, what do you think? We submitted 4 changes to disarming shots, if we are asked to submit more, I'll get this in.
3. Multi-target shot
Um, make it hit multiple targets. Currently broken.
We got that in every issues report so far, you're right. There have been some tests that say it does work, just in an odd fashion, we should all try that out (while leaving that it's broken in the report is fine).
4. Double tap
Make this hit 2 HAMs at once for a multiplier of 2.0 to each HAM pool.
5. Fan shot
Make this fire3 times at the health and action pool with a damage mod of 1.5 for each hit. This would leave a chance to score a tripple hit on one pool.
6. Pistol melee defense2
Reduced HAM cost slightly increased damage version of pistol melee defense1.
well, it does a lot more damage but with no knockdown, and we went ahead and added this to the report as you suggest here, that is, to add knockdown to it.
7. Body shot3
Reduce the speed so that it is just slightly slower than body shot2. Same should probably be done for legshot3, but I don't know about headshot3. Seeing as how headshot3 attacks only the mind pool, this may be to much.
WIth the way speed works, and the fact that eyshot as a higher damage multipler already (which is OK), we thought an increase to damage was better than increasing speed, since at high speed, your delay doesn't add DPS, only your damage per shot does. I still stand by that, anyone else?
8. Stopping shot
The description of this attack betrays its effect. While it may do good damage, it is a great deal slower than other specials that do around the same damage. Keep the delay, make the damage mod from 0.1X - 10.0X. Meaning sometimes you would only hit for10% of your weapons base damage, and others you could get10 times the damage of your weapon. In PvP, the best theoretical hit would still not one shot anyone with a decent HAM or if they had resists to the damage. Also you have to take into account, for this to do really high damage, you would have to both get a good base hit off your weapon and a good multiplier. Not only that, but the delay would make this a very risky special, that could pay off as a last ditch effort. With a good FWG5, this attack could range from 5-2500 damage.
An effecton stopping shot to make it better than it currently is, which is worse than double tap (at slower speeds)? Sounds good to me, I've seen a lot of people ask why the description reads the way it does.
I like your ideas there pretty sound.
They should also get rid of 30sec timmer on Melee Defense 2 & SuppresionFire and lower the HAM cost on Defense 2. Us pistoleers are going to be gimped if nothing gets down about this...
Pistoleers should be able to kill solo...
-Give us back the Whip...
"I'm personally not keen on using a ranged profession with point blank attacks as our bread and butter...I'd rather see something like 32m attacks that are actually useful.There's no reason I'd usePB single over fan, it's too risky to have to see "target out of range" IMO. I want to be moving and firing, I don't want to have to get within hitting distance of a polearm or 2H sword just to use my ranged attacks. That's just my take. Defenses..area thorn in everyone's side. Speed, speed over 50 or 60 is indeed useful, depending on what attack you use and what your weapon speed is. You didnt stack the attack delay with the weapon speed maybe?"
Maybe our PB skills(except pistol whip) should be renamed and remade into close combat skills and given better range. The speed and damage output of PBS2 and PBA2 are very nice, and I don't mind getting in close to use them. The problem is, I can't live up close long enough to use them. The only time I can rely on PBS2 is after a pistol whip someone. I would rather see these skills remain situational and requiring some skill and tactics to use. When I do PMD1 to PBS2s my target usualy gets decimated because I can get off so many high damaging hits while they are knocked down, which as you know means a 50% damage bonus on top. Could I get a link to your post on how speed mods work? I was under the assumption that the speed bonus mods were added one at a time, and then the delay modifier was added. The reason I feel that our pistol speed mods are wasted is because FWG5s continue to get better, with 1.9 speeds available on Bloodfin. Scout blasterscan be gotten at 1.7 as well. The best speeds on DX2s I have seen is 2.7, however once better materials are found for these, they may get clos to 2 seconds. Sorry about the miss-qoute on the +100 pistol speed. For some reason I was pretty sure about this. A link explaining the way speed mods and delay modifiers work would be wonderful.
"I agree, the master level skill should be more than an inconvinience.But Iget stunned by mobs all the time and never notice it hindering me, personally, intimidate seems to hurt the most (other than other KD effects like dizzy), it reduces my damage output by quite a bit. What's stun doing that makes it good to request? Reduces defense?With defenses broken, I'd rather see some other effect, what do you think? We submitted 4 changes to disarming shots, if we are asked to submit more, I'll get this in."
When I get stunned in PvE, it makes my action que clear and I can't perform any specials until it wears off. Anyone else ever notice this? I am certain this is what it does, atleast to my character. I have farmed alot of mobs that use this attack so I am quite certain on this. Also, the last ditch special has a "stun" effect associated with it. Basicly you can't heal or attack until it wears off. I would much rather see this kind of a stun effect. Anyone know what that status effect is called, or if it is even displayed as an effect?
"7. Body shot3
Reduce the speed so that it is just slightly slower than body shot2. Same should probably be done for legshot3, but I don't know about headshot3. Seeing as how headshot3 attacks only the mind pool, this may be to much.
WIth the way speed works, and the fact that eyshot as a higher damage multipler already (which is OK), we thought an increase to damage was better than increasing speed, since at high speed, your delay doesn't add DPS, only your damage per shot does. I still stand by that, anyone else?"
Good point.
What did you think about my ideas for double tap and fan shot? Some people might not want to see fan shot changed, and I can understand. However, if BS3 was changed then we would no longer need fan shot as a means of "reliable" damage. Thanks for taking time to respond.
Our pistol speed mods are wasted, it doesn't make a difference after it gets to 1 second. Lets say stopping shot has a 3X delay on it. It will always be 3 seconds since the cap is 1. Now, if the tangle pistol, DX2 and or SR combat pistol were to be given huge damage and a slow speed, this might be a different story. Unfortunatly, it seems the these pistols only have the slow speed and lack the damage that should go along with them. I believe if you add up all the marksman and pistoleer speed increases, it is +100. I could be wrong though. A master rifleman can fire a 9 second riflerougly around3.5seconds(got this from a thread about T21s). A master pistoleer only fires a 2 second pistol every second. We miss out on alot of damage potential because of the cap. We shouldn't have people firing every 1/2 a second, but we also shouldn't have wasted speed mods just adding to the already huge list of skill mods that don't work at all. Thanks for the input guys, anyone else care to add some ideas or thoughts?
Just noticed some really bad mistakes on my first post, I should really start proof reading. I highlighted parts I changed or clarified.
1. Fix stat mods, get rid of redundent ones.
With the speed of pistols, we only need +50 or +60 to cap our speed on just about every pistol type if decently made. Take theremaining 40-50 speed mod points and turn them into something else. Possibly more status change defense or melee defense. If we are the supposed to be the best pistol usersand work well at close combat, then give us the defenses to live up close. This would give us a better chance to use our PB skills. When you move in on an enemy in PvP, you instantly become a huge target. Also, I have had people whip out all kinds of melee weapons right when I get up to them to use PB skills. Getting in close is very dangerous in PvP for class with outgood tools for survival. Of course, make the stat mods actualy work. It is a huge slap in the face to play a character with so many defensive stat mods and have none of them work.
2. Disarming shot1/2
Changedisarming shot1 into a 3 second stun with a 2.5X damage multiplier. Make disarming shot2 an AoE stun lasting 2 seconds with no damage multiplier. This is assuming that stun has a timer now. Another route would be to make disarming shots unequip your weapons, but this seems a little pointless. A master level skill should be morethan a minor inconvenience