Pistoleer Archive
Thread: BH vs Pistoleers, better?
Currently this same arguement is in the Pistoleer, Carbineer, and Rifleman forums.
If our BH marks are 10,000+ HAM and we haeve to be able to own them, what makes you and your 1000ish HAM so special? In PvP you are nothing to a BH and that is how it should be.
The only other line that has room to say they should rival the BHs are the Commandos. I think that should be an even fight.
How about a real world analogy. Cops, they're both a sort of combat arms of society. I street cop that does nothing but work with his side arm as a weapon, goes to the range, cleans it every 15 mins etc is kinda like a pistoleer. The rest of his police skill points go into things like writing tickets, signaling traffic, high speed persuits in addition to his mastery of his pistol. A SWAT member (read: bounty hunter) not only has a pistol, but will also carry maybe an MP5 (carbine) and maybe one will have a sniper rifle or something. He's kind of a master at multiple weapons. All this cop's skill points have been put into being a SWAT member. He doesn't write tickets, walk the beat, etc. He just takes some guy(s) out that need to be taken out. Now who should come out one on one? The SWAT guy.
On the matter of BH specials being better than a pistoleer, I can only speak from exp of having unarmed melee, health shot 2, and eye shot and bleeding shot. I hardly EVER use my two BH specials and use my two pistoleer specials every PvE fight. Even against PvP I'll use them more than eye shot. And don't you get some AOE knockdown? That's hardly the short end of the stick.
I dont think you guys take defense into account yes if the bounty hunter gets that first shot to hit its bound to be over but just today I had a novice BH try to gank me while I was doing missions in anchorhead.
I am shotting the base when I read that I have dodged something so I hit tab and bodyshot then run over and pistolwhip the guy and 2 bodyshots latter he's dead. BHs are assasins they are great at offense but they have no defense. Now I went with smuggler/pistoleer/TKA and I have alot of ranged and melee defenses So theres a much better chance that first shot will miss and if you dumb enoughtto not do it at full range then Im sorry but your dead and thats with out panic shot with panic shot I see they missed hit tab panicshot and then your dead cuz you cant get up, becuase you have no defense against knockdowns
Obviously, PVP a BH would win, BUT what if he JUST uses Pistol? With NO Pistoleer skills. Sorry no Melee Defense... now, honestly, who cares. Pistoleer isnt suddenly crap. a Master Pistoleer isnt suddenly terrible proffession ebcause BH is "better". No, actually, PVP is BH's territory. As it should be. Bounty Hunter is meants to Vs players/NPCs. as for MOBs and such it is pretty even.
Now if you want to be the BEST pistol wielder in the game, you need Master Pistoleer and Pistol BH tree. But then what else can you be? Nothing hardly. I am Pistoleer because it's cool, it has MANY good things about it and cool moves, and it leaves A LOT of skil points open for OTHER proffessions. Besides there are too many BHs now, such a common site. I see more novice BHers them Novice marksman. But not dissing the class it's the uberest class out there! (Next to Ranger/Pistoleer of course =)
"
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine... "
Erisk Bosann, Ranger/Pistoleer/CH - Lance Corporal Rebel Alliance (Intrepid Galaxy)
Your police analogy is FREAKING RETARDED.
Here is the analogy how it should apply...
Rooster Cogburn (john wayne/bounty hunter)
VS.
Billy the Kid (<---THERE IS A FREAKEN PISTOLEER YOU NUMB NUTS NOT A GDAMN COP, billy the kid aka prince of pistoleers, not some donut eating meter maid god.)
Who wins? We dunno, probably who is smart enough to get the first shot off... AS IT SHOULD BE.
Well after hitting master pistoleer I no long care about BH's strength. They take 2 eye shots to kill me, I take 1 disarmingshot2 to put them out of commission long enough to incap them, or well, continuing to disarm2 them, ~3 shot kill
OK heres my take on this whole bounty hunter better than a pistoleer argument. BH are saying because they took longer and had to master 2 skills before they can even get nov BH they should be DA MAN! this pistoleer says not so. BH are the jack of all trades when it comes to weapons skills, masters of none. BH are masters of finding their mark and killing him by using the various weapons at their disposal. yes they should have their BH only special moves in each weapon skill. but when it comes down to it, a master pistoleershouldbeat a BH using a pistol, in a stand up fight. (herecome the flames)
pistoleers, riflemen and carbineers who master their weapons are just that, MASTERS of their weapons!
John Wayne (uses all types of weapons in his movies) = Bounty Hunter
Clint Eastwood (almostexclusively uses pistols in his movies) = Master Pistoleer
Who would win? difficult to say isnt it? In a straight up fight, pistols all around, I say by a nose it would be Clint (the pistoleer)In a very, very close fight.
But really the whole argument is moot to those that play PvE over PvP.
when did billy the kid ever collect bounties?
Go back to that famous pistoleer meter maid.
When did the Sun Dance Kid (argueably as good as Billy) ever collect bounties?
A pistoleers greatest and most equal adversary was in fact the bounty hunter, and the bounty hunters the pistol packen outlaws he pursued. (master pistoleer + some scouting in swg if you must)
Bounty Hunting is in fact a dangerous profession because of the lethalness ofit's prey.
If fighting meter maids was as hard as it got every tom **edit** and harry who ever parked in the yellow would be rushing to the nearest terminal.
Whats with your obsession with dime novels and bad Emilio Estavez movies? I never said Billy the Kid collected bounties and neither does anyone who plays SWG who wants the BH line for pistol. Lets try this again. If we are going to use the Billy the Kid archtype for this game we can assume a few things. Since all he was was a pistoleer he either a) only used his 92 points to attain pistoleer and NOTHING else {unless you can give me an example of some other profession he might have had} or b) used the remaining 158 to achieve better pistol related skills, which in this game can only mean the pistol line of BH. Since if we are to assume that Billy the Kid was the "prince of pistoleers" we can surmise that instead of sitting on his remaining 158 points {after all he wasn't a craftsman or a medic etc} he would have poured them into BH to achieve the greatest possible impact with a pistol. I suppose he COULD have taken a bounty if he so chose, since anyone in the West could have collected on a bounty. I read no where that in the 1800s you HAD to be a full time bounty hunter to do so. He just probably wouldn't have had much sucess at it (low investigation). This whole argument is rather rediculous, since my original analogy is truer to a RP aspect than a stereotypic B movie character. The real point is that a BHs pistol line should reflect his sole dedication to killing human targets solo (be it NPC mark or PvP) using pistols/carbines/LLC depending on the circumstances.
Think of it this way: A Marine who goes to boot camp to learn how to march, drill, live in the field, as well as learn marksmanship can be thought of as a BH. All those are akin to the prerequisites for BH (scouting/marks). Once graduated from PI or San DIego, they get further training on methods for killing/disabling the enemy in a variety of circumstances and with it further instruction and training on pistols, machine guns, rifles etc. Their job is to kill the enemy with a select pool of weapons much like our BH. A civilian whos job might be a doctor or musician, might have also become so proficient using a pistol that hes a dead shot at the range. Because he knows his H&K inside and out don't mean he's gonna be able to hang 1-on-1 with a Marine with a Berreta.
This isn't meant for a slam on pistoleers or a call to nerf them (well maybe a 800 dam AOE knockdown needs to be looked at; unless you could site me an example of that happening real world). I just don't see the uproar from an elite profession that on its own only takes a third of your characters capacity and compares it to a profession that takes up to 80%.
The pistoleer is based of off the old west arch type are you freaken daft?
GUNSLINGER RING A FREAKEN BELL? **edit** do you think this came from? What time period was famour for its "gunslingers, famous gun fighters, pistoleers etc etc..?"
Kid, cassidy etc etc.
Here is some math for you smack tard, taken from a post on pistoleer issues.
"
The number one item should be
Make pistoleers better pistol users then anyone else!
Here is some information to support the fact that we are not.
Master Bounty hunter: 120 acc 80 sp. For carb pistol.
Master Pistoleer with master marksman: 105 acc 79 sp.
Master Pistoleer without master marksman: 95 acc 74 sp.
Highest Pistoleer stats you can get with you skill points:
Take the 4 marksman boxes in pistoleer and the 4 in specials, take the four boxes in bounty hunter either carbine or pistol.
145 acc
104 sp.
Now what you lose for not being master in each of these?
10 points of accuracy and 5 points of speed.
Skill points to be a Master pistoleer: 92
Experiance points to be a Master pistoleer: 4571620 all pistol or combat xp.
Skill points to be a Master Bounty hunter: 217 77 point for master scout
Experiance points to be Master Bounty hunter: 4108410 (129620 of it scouting xp)
Going the hybrid non master route:
Skill points: 208 77 point master scout
Experiance points: 3703790
So being a master pistoleer get me what? Dodge I can't count on. Less accuracy less speed more time killing mobs with my pistol. Less pistols avaliable to me. Oh I know I can where the title gunslinger or something right?
Our best styles are in one or two lines the rest seems like filler.
We should be feared in any close ranged combat. The above shows that we will be dead not feared at any ranged combat.
Some look at skill points as being the balance but there are two xp and skill points. We pay 463210 over all skill points and 592830 more actually pistol and combat xp to be what the third rate pistol using class. Some might say that we don't pay as many skill points to be a master pistoleer. That part is true. But 77 points of the BH profession is scouting. Scouting is not combat. How does setting up a tent make you a better shot or faster then me? So the diffrence is 48 points for the master but for the hybrid is is only 39. As a bounty hunter you also get missons that are not accessable to any other class. I think that is your payment for your 48 skill points. "
Now tell me again why BH's are f'n crying? NOT BECAUSE OF THE POINTS.
Cry me a **edit** f'n river if OMG ANOTHER CLASS CAN ALMOST SHOOT AS GOOD AS ME. Never mind that they are a PURE fighting class not some donut eating fugitive tracker. Your B.S. about how hard it is to become a BH is just that, a load of crap.
Pistoleers should be the master of pistols, not bounty hunters. You think you should be better at hand to hand than a TKA character as well? You should be able to track down a TKA and beat him at his profession in a stand up toe to toe fight because your what...have a background in h2h? BH's are BEYOND fine, it's the pistoleer that needs to be brought up to par.
I don't want to get into a debate on professions that none of us had a hand in crafting, but, I did see some strange references to our pistoleer profession, here's what I say in response to that:
From the official strat guide on pistoleer/Master Gunfighter.
"Any kid can blast a bottle of ale off a fencepost in broad daylight." Can we call this master pistol specialization from the marksman tree? And that's being generous.
"The Pistoleer can shoot six out of the air while on the run, at night, and shoot the seventh out of your hand before you have a chance to throw it. It's a harsh galaxy out there, and this professions has the abilities to survive it".
We're Master Gunfighters, a combination of Gunslinger, Gunfighter, Quickdraw Artist, and Elite Guardsman, not civilians that happen to own a pistol.
Analogies on real world, pre-reqs, etc., are all a bit fishy. I mean, a pistoleer can choose master scouting + master marksman + master pistoleer..then what? Anyone can spec in both lines to some degree, so it's a moot argument in that respect. Finally, a master pistoleer seems to be able to fare quite well vs a master bounty hunter that uses a pistol, in PvP, so where is the main complaint coming from? Effectiveness is overall, not a single stat. 10K HAM mobs? What has that got to do with PvP? All combat profession with the right equipment/technique can take 10K HAM mobs, pretty irrelevant, even some non-combat professions.
Here's one comment on BH that I think is appropriate.
If player bounties are put in, THEN bounty hunters have that chance to "shine" in PvP (rather than beinggreat in PvP and excellent in PvE overall which they already are). But for different reasons. I mean, if you think hunting a bounty is walking up and spamming knockdown until incap,then how's that different from any combat profession?? It's not. You have multiple weapons for a reasons, and can track, for a reason.
But to get a player bounty, to track them, find out where they live, find out their movements and hangouts. Who are their friends, what faction are they, what armor do they use if any, what weapons? (we call that investigation) What other skills do they have...a medic or an entertainer?.. do they check a harvester every morning or run faction missions at night? Choose your weapon based on the weaknesses they have, choose your armor based on what their favored weapon is, choose the location of the conflict based on what serves you best, choose the time...when you have plenty of spice as backup and your power up on your weaponis fully charged, and you've got a fresh deflector shield, and you got enhance buffs form a local doctor 5 minutes earlier..... THEN YOU STRIKE. Isn't that more related to having a variety of weapons/specials and having tracking/bounties? Is that maybe where a BH will get their "PvP" edge?
Or, go straight to the bounty, no prep, no investigation, and eyeshot till incap?
Who knows.