Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Issues List...time to think of Whats wrong or What you would like to see. Updated 10/08
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LordMaxx
Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:10 pm
#1
I already have the current issues list that RandonB put together. And yes nothing much has changed. But I would like to hear from as many of you as would like to speak up about current issues you have with the pistoleer profession. I understand that most our specials are redundant and many not working as they should. Im trying to put together a master list of ALL problems. and prioritize them. And yes Dual Wield is on it.
Obviously Our speed is huge concern. and I agree and it should be a priority in the revamp.
The specials do need to be updated or possibly completely revamped.
To get a ton of state specials, we may end up having to give up something...same goes for damage types...we sacrifice power for damage types. But the speed formula has been messed up and has not been taken into account...
As far as other perks we actually have quite a few defenses in our favor with the state defenses and melee defense. But those should be balanced in the revamp also. How much defense should a pistoleer have? And what is the trade off?
So...States, Speed, Defenses, Damage Types how would you rank these in order of importance, #1 most important, #4 Least important.
Obviously Our speed is huge concern. and I agree and it should be a priority in the revamp.
The specials do need to be updated or possibly completely revamped.
To get a ton of state specials, we may end up having to give up something...same goes for damage types...we sacrifice power for damage types. But the speed formula has been messed up and has not been taken into account...
As far as other perks we actually have quite a few defenses in our favor with the state defenses and melee defense. But those should be balanced in the revamp also. How much defense should a pistoleer have? And what is the trade off?
So...States, Speed, Defenses, Damage Types how would you rank these in order of importance, #1 most important, #4 Least important.
Message Edited by LordMaxx on 10-08-2004 09:40 AM
Myxo-Reb
Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:27 pm
#2
I would like to see some state effects given to some of the attacks, perhaps a KD/Dizzy with Pistol Melee Defense 2. This along with simply having working specials.
MonoAtreides
Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:42 pm
#3
Yes, state effects would be super. We should not have anything more than AP1. KD/Dizzy would be great with Pistol Melee defense 2. I think that Pistoleer should be the only ranged profession that can shoot at the cap not counting people with skill tapes and/or exceptional weapons. Granted that is perhaps an issue for the other professions it makes pistoleer less attractive if someone can head shot 3 at the cap. Also, I think that it makes sense for the launcher pistol to have AP1 considering the rocket launcher does heavy armor piercing and the launcher is supposed to fire a "small suite of rockets." Working or at least somewhat effective specials would be nice. Disarming shot does not seem worth anything. And more speed should be given to pistoleer, at present one needs to have Desperado for the speed and accuracy.
SolzDevius
Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:53 pm
#4
I would like to see a dizzy attack. Also, a little higher speed mods would be nice, considering our master cert pistol is slow as a tortoise on a cold day.
Now, as far as what's wrong? Well... I still don't think I've ever used multi-target pistol shot, bodyshot 3 or disarming shot. These need to be changed in some way to make them useful. It would be nice, now that there is a weapon switch delay, to actually be able to make our oppenent unequip their weapon with disarming shot. Give it a timer so it can't continually be used. I'd like to see melee defense 2 given a state effect, same with multi-target pistol shot. Too many unused specials, especially master specials.
SolzDevius
Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:04 pm
#5
oh and of course I'd like to see dual pistols (I can dream, can't I?) at master.
Imperiai2
Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:36 pm
#6
I would like to see more pistols, period. I don't even care if alot of them have similar or even equal stats, I'm just stick of looking at all the same ones. There have got to be a thousand models of pistol on the market (black or otherwise) at this point in time of Star Wars...
And dual pistols of course.
Ternque01
Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:17 pm
#7
MonoAtreides wrote:
Yes, state effects would be super. We should not have anything more than AP1. KD/Dizzy would be great with Pistol Melee defense 2. I think that Pistoleer should be the only ranged profession that can shoot at the cap not counting people with skill tapes and/or exceptional weapons. Granted that is perhaps an issue for the other professions it makes pistoleer less attractive if someone can head shot 3 at the cap. Also, I think that it makes sense for the launcher pistol to have AP1 considering the rocket launcher does heavy armor piercing and the launcher is supposed to fire a "small suite of rockets." Working or at least somewhat effective specials would be nice. Disarming shot does not seem worth anything. And more speed should be given to pistoleer, at present one needs to have Desperado for the speed and accuracy.
/applaud
This guy knows balance. Pistoleers need better state attacks, and less of a dependence on BH's Desperado the way things are currently setup for speed. Shooting at the same speed, with half the damage, half the armor piercing, and half the state attacks as riflemen don't cut anything in PvP. I am formally disgruntled.
SanctusNihilum
Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:06 pm
#8
I'd love to have more speed and fix the current specials. You shouldnt need master marksman, scout 4xxx and be a bounty hunter in order to use pistols effectively 
. A dizzy would be nice but working, non "redundant" specials would be just grand.
. A dizzy would be nice but working, non "redundant" specials would be just grand.
DarthNkari
Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:34 am
#9
pistoleer needs to have a master box special that is worth using. it sucksthat for a pistol user to be effective in pvp they have to have BH 0040 imo. something non-lame. doesnt have to steal mind attacks from rifle or bh or anything....but something that is realistically as good as or better than those, but not overy powerful
maybe something unique like a better fan shot thats health targeted....or a shot that hits targets health/action but for alot....or hits someone multiple times but for alot.....just something actually useful
----
defenses are low, but still not too shabby so not a big deal.
easy to mix the prof with anything, just needs it own attack
Javac
Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:53 am
#10
RandonB's list still applies for the pistoleer specials, so nothing to add there.
Speed - add more speed at the master box. You shouldn't need gear or BH Pistols to fire faster than a rifleman. For example, unsliced guns with only master mods and best dps shot:
DX2 2.3/97-156 pistol with 74 speed is ~530dps @ 1.4s delay
add master marksman (+5 speed) ~655dps @ 1.2s delay
T21 7.0/132-362 rifle with 90 speed is ~800dps @ 1.4s delay
add master marksman (+5 speed) ~1500dps @ 1.2s delay
This doesn't even take into account the fact that the T21 is AP3.
Damage types - I'd love to see a new pistol or two with electric and/or cold damage types. Since we're limited to AP1 this would let us at least be able to pick the vulnerable points on a target. It would be nice if we could use scatter/launcher as well since they are pistols, but don't really see it happening.
DX2 - Reduce the powerhandler requirement from 5 to 2-3 like most other pistols. The Geo takes less even (at 4), which makes it very difficult to enhance our 'elite' gun when a scatter pistol only takes 1 in comparision.
Speed - add more speed at the master box. You shouldn't need gear or BH Pistols to fire faster than a rifleman. For example, unsliced guns with only master mods and best dps shot:
DX2 2.3/97-156 pistol with 74 speed is ~530dps @ 1.4s delay
add master marksman (+5 speed) ~655dps @ 1.2s delay
T21 7.0/132-362 rifle with 90 speed is ~800dps @ 1.4s delay
add master marksman (+5 speed) ~1500dps @ 1.2s delay
This doesn't even take into account the fact that the T21 is AP3.
Damage types - I'd love to see a new pistol or two with electric and/or cold damage types. Since we're limited to AP1 this would let us at least be able to pick the vulnerable points on a target. It would be nice if we could use scatter/launcher as well since they are pistols, but don't really see it happening.
DX2 - Reduce the powerhandler requirement from 5 to 2-3 like most other pistols. The Geo takes less even (at 4), which makes it very difficult to enhance our 'elite' gun when a scatter pistol only takes 1 in comparision.
BadgerSmaker
Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:32 am
#11
What was the original idea for the balance between Pistoleers, Carbineersand Rilfemen? Something along the line of:
Pistols - low damage - high speed - directable states (all of them?)- lots/all of damage types available - good at shortto medium range - favors melee defense - fast movement speed - fast weapon change speed (only when changing to another pistol) - low armour piercing
Carbines - medium damage - medium speed - random states - half or more damage types available -bestat mid to long range - balanced between melee and ranged defense - good movement speed - good weapon change speed when grabbing another type of carbine - good armour piercing
Rifles - high damage - low speed - a few states - a few damage types available - excellent at long range - favors ranged defense - least movement speed - slowest at changing to other rifles - high armour piercing
That way you could pick one that favours your playstyle, would you prefer to be a high damaging, slow,lumbering, heavy hitter... or the fast moving, fast hitting,state effect pistoleer... or maybe the carbineer who bridges the gap between the two?
Quite honestly I wouldn't know where to start with Pistoleer as a profession on its own. If it were me I'd dump all the current specials and make an entirely new set that makes Pistoleer the technical fighterit should be.
Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 10-08-2004 01:44 PM
SolzDevius
Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:06 am
#12
LordMaxx wrote:
I already have the current issues list that RandonB put together. And yes nothing much has changed. But I would like to hear from as many of you as would like to speak up about current issues you have with the pistoleer profession. I understand that most our specials are redundant and many not working as they should. Im trying to put together a master list of ALL problems. and prioritize them. And yes Dual Wield is on it.
Obviously Our speed is huge concern. and I agree and it should be a priority in the revamp.
The specials do need to be updated or possibly completely revamped.
To get a ton of state specials, we may end up having to give up something...same goes for damage types...we sacrifice power for damage types. But the speed formula has been messed up and has not been taken into account...
As far as other perks we actually have quite a few defenses in our favor with the state defenses and melee defense. But those should be balanced in the revamp also. How much defense should a pistoleer have? And what is the trade off?
So...States, Speed, Defenses, Damage Types how would you rank these in order of importance, #1 most important, #4 Least important.
Message Edited by LordMaxx on 10-08-2004 09:40 AM
#1. Speed
#2. States
#3. Damage Types
#4. Defenses
As for as giving up something, I'd be more than happy to give up all of our master specials 
for a couple of state specials.
for a couple of state specials.The way I see it, our speed (what we're supposed to have, at least) should make up for the lack of damage our pistols have. I agree that we should have no higher than AP1 weapons, since we're supposed to be fighting other people, NOT heavily armored machines. I personally don't have any problem with our defenses, although I wouldn't mind seeing a little more melee defense, since we're supposed to be fighting in relatively close proximity compared to other ranged fighters. Maybe throw in some melee mitigation like smugglers get (I know it's only mit 1, but mit 1 is better than mit 0).
But most importantly we need our specials fixed. I'm sure, what with -- hopefully -- a lot of thought going into the combat rebalance, the issue of our special attacks will not be fixed until the rebalance. However, the addition of a couple of state effects would at least breathe a little life into a lot of dead specials. We are the ONLY profession (of those that have master specials) where NONE of our master specials are either working as intended or useful.
Message Edited by SolzDevius on 10-08-2004 08:18 AM
Mr_Wibble
Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:46 am
#13
#1 - Speed
#2 - Damage Types
#3 - States
#4 - Defenses
For me, speed is the top one, for same reason as everybody else. I'd put damage types above states, as for me being a pistoleer means having a varied arsenal at my disposal. The offensive balance is between sheer damage (per hit and AP, not DPS), states and damage types and I'd rather leave the state attacks for carbineers. Yes dizzy on melee defence 2 and intimidate on disarming shot 2 would be perfect, but I wouldn't feel the need for any more state attacks. Defences are kind of ok at the moment, though I do think a bit more ranged defence wouldn't go amis.
#2 - Damage Types
#3 - States
#4 - Defenses
For me, speed is the top one, for same reason as everybody else. I'd put damage types above states, as for me being a pistoleer means having a varied arsenal at my disposal. The offensive balance is between sheer damage (per hit and AP, not DPS), states and damage types and I'd rather leave the state attacks for carbineers. Yes dizzy on melee defence 2 and intimidate on disarming shot 2 would be perfect, but I wouldn't feel the need for any more state attacks. Defences are kind of ok at the moment, though I do think a bit more ranged defence wouldn't go amis.
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