Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The Ultimate PvP Pistoleer Template
Ternque01 wrote:I'll keep this short and sweet. The template that has Desperado/Dirty Fighting/Nov. Commando/Master Pistoleer won't do very well in PvP. It lacks defenses. You only gain defense mainly from Pistoleer.While you can eat some Thatkillo for Defense vs. KD, you will be dizzied and posture changed in no time, leaving you flopping on the ground.Here is the template I use: Master Pistoleer, BH 0030, Fencer 0440.It doesn't look spectacular, but I argue it is one of the best PvP templates available. It grants 145 pistol accuracy and 119 pistol speed. In addition to the Ranged Mitigation 3 from Mast. Pistoleer, you get Melee Mitigation 2 from the fencer.The defenses vs states is incredible: vs Blind +80, vs Dizzy +80, vs Intimidate +20, vs KD +100, vs Posture Change +70, vs Stun +40. With Thatkillo, you are impossible to KD. If you drink that drink that grants Def. vs Dizzy and be incredibly hard to dizzy. What this means is that you can stay on your feet during a fight. This means you stay alive.To be honest, you still carry the specials you need to PvP with... mainly Eyeshot. This is a sad, but true, consequence of our poor combat system we current play by. You have enough accuracy to land most of your shots too. Using Intimidate from your brawler tree is of paramount importance also. The important thing is the defenses and accuracy used to attack efficiently and stay alive. What good is Last Ditch if you aren't even around to use it?
Do you mind if i critique this template? i dont mean to flame but alot of that has little or no bearing in PVP.
1) The melee mitigation only sticks if you have a melee weapon equiped
2) Eyeshot is good but the damage put out by the smuggler specials is better, along with the stun state and ranged knockdown.
3) Defenses: while having better KD/Dizzy defense is good, like you said thak will bring your KD up above 100 and with a squadleader in PVP (a must) you wont get dizzy.
In short, the damage and state skills from smug are still more important then nearly useless state defenses.
Koth_Ablon wrote:
Do you mind if i critique this template? i dont mean to flame but alot of that has little or no bearing in PVP.
1) The melee mitigation only sticks if you have a melee weapon equiped
2) Eyeshot is good but the damage put out by the smuggler specials is better, along with the stun state and ranged knockdown.
3) Defenses: while having better KD/Dizzy defense is good, like you said thak will bring your KD up above 100 and with a squadleader in PVP (a must) you wont get dizzy.
In short, the damage and state skills from smug are still more important then nearly useless state defenses.
1) The mitigation always works, its passive
2) Damage from smuggler specials isnt necessarily more because if you keep hitting different pools, you are actually doing less damage. We arent interested in most damage total, its most damage to one pool and eye shot does that at least as good as last ditch
3) Gotta be close to intim, may as well pistol melee 1 and KD while your close, i can live without low blow
4) def. vs. KD is good enuff at 90-100 in my opinion. sure i may fall once in a while but id rather eat pikatta pie instead of thak. and for the other half of my stomach, id prefer to leave it open for synthsteak in case you do get knocked down, or even save room for vercupti in case you get into a mind shot war
just some counter constructive critisism =)
oh and about the origonal poster not having torso shot....torso is nice for the rare mob thats 100% resist to all your damage types....you can kill em with the fire from torso shot hehe but i see your point in taking the top fencer defense box. i considered doing the same once i read your post
Koth_Ablon wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
I'll keep this short and sweet. The template that has Desperado/Dirty Fighting/Nov. Commando/Master Pistoleer won't do very well in PvP. It lacks defenses. You only gain defense mainly from Pistoleer.
While you can eat some Thatkillo for Defense vs. KD, you will be dizzied and posture changed in no time, leaving you flopping on the ground.
Here is the template I use: Master Pistoleer, BH 0030, Fencer 0440.
It doesn't look spectacular, but I argue it is one of the best PvP templates available. It grants 145 pistol accuracy and 119 pistol speed. In addition to the Ranged Mitigation 3 from Mast. Pistoleer, you get Melee Mitigation 2 from the fencer.
The defenses vs states is incredible: vs Blind +80, vs Dizzy +80, vs Intimidate +20, vs KD +100, vs Posture Change +70, vs Stun +40. With Thatkillo, you are impossible to KD. If you drink that drink that grants Def. vs Dizzy and be incredibly hard to dizzy. What this means is that you can stay on your feet during a fight. This means you stay alive.
To be honest, you still carry the specials you need to PvP with... mainly Eyeshot. This is a sad, but true, consequence of our poor combat system we current play by. You have enough accuracy to land most of your shots too. Using Intimidate from your brawler tree is of paramount importance also. The important thing is the defenses and accuracy used to attack efficiently and stay alive. What good is Last Ditch if you aren't even around to use it?
Do you mind if i critique this template? i dont mean to flame but alot of that has little or no bearing in PVP.
1) The melee mitigation only sticks if you have a melee weapon equiped
Not True
2) Eyeshot is good but the damage put out by the smuggler specials is better, along with the stun state and ranged knockdown.
Ranged knockdown is useless in PvP against seasoned opponents. While Last Ditch is incredibly powerful, it is also incredibly random. The only thing that makes Dirty Fighting appealing is the stun state gained from LD, and a ranged stun attack isn't worth spending an extra 34 skill points, not when that could be better spent actually keeping you alive. I'm not discounting other pistol shots and their tactical use in PvP, but EyeShot targets a virtually unhealable pool, and Last Ditch is sure to put you in a ditch... along with all of the other dead corpses cleaned up from a battlefield.
3) Defenses: while having better KD/Dizzy defense is good, like you said thak will bring your KD up above 100 and with a squadleader in PVP (a must) you wont get dizzy.
Squadleaders are rare in this game. I have PvP'ed alot on Bria (not as much as some, but I digress) and have rarely been in the same group as a squadleader that knows his/her job. Meanwhile, while the incredibly vast majority of PvPers don't use a squadleader, a measly Def vs. Dizzy of 40 and an even smaller Def. vs. Posture Change of 20 will ensure that they die all of their deaths on their backs. No amount of Thatkillo will save you, and good luck finding a squadleader. Let me hit you with that equation again: dizzy + posture change = one dead pistoleer. Notice in this equation that no amount of added Def. vs KD will save your ass.
In short, the damage and state skills from smug are still more important then nearly useless state defenses.
Losing a ranged stun attack is fine by me if that means I can actually fight in a battle.
Message Edited by DarkMortar on 11-01-2004 09:32 PM
Ternque01 wrote:
Koth_Ablon wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:I'll keep this short and sweet. The template that has Desperado/Dirty Fighting/Nov. Commando/Master Pistoleer won't do very well in PvP. It lacks defenses. You only gain defense mainly from Pistoleer.While you can eat some Thatkillo for Defense vs. KD, you will be dizzied and posture changed in no time, leaving you flopping on the ground.Here is the template I use: Master Pistoleer, BH 0030, Fencer 0440.It doesn't look spectacular, but I argue it is one of the best PvP templates available. It grants 145 pistol accuracy and 119 pistol speed. In addition to the Ranged Mitigation 3 from Mast. Pistoleer, you get Melee Mitigation 2 from the fencer.The defenses vs states is incredible: vs Blind +80, vs Dizzy +80, vs Intimidate +20, vs KD +100, vs Posture Change +70, vs Stun +40. With Thatkillo, you are impossible to KD. If you drink that drink that grants Def. vs Dizzy and be incredibly hard to dizzy. What this means is that you can stay on your feet during a fight. This means you stay alive.To be honest, you still carry the specials you need to PvP with... mainly Eyeshot. This is a sad, but true, consequence of our poor combat system we current play by. You have enough accuracy to land most of your shots too. Using Intimidate from your brawler tree is of paramount importance also. The important thing is the defenses and accuracy used to attack efficiently and stay alive. What good is Last Ditch if you aren't even around to use it?
Do you mind if i critique this template? i dont mean to flame but alot of that has little or no bearing in PVP.
1) The melee mitigation only sticks if you have a melee weapon equipedNot True
2) Eyeshot is good but the damage put out by the smuggler specials is better, along with the stun state and ranged knockdown.Ranged knockdown is useless in PvP against seasoned opponents. While Last Ditch is incredibly powerful, it is also incredibly random. The only thing that makes Dirty Fighting appealing is the stun state gained from LD, and a ranged stun attack isn't worth spending an extra 34 skill points, not when that could be better spent actually keeping you alive. I'm not discounting other pistol shots and their tactical use in PvP, but EyeShot targets a virtually unhealable pool, and Last Ditch is sure to put you in a ditch... along with all of the other dead corpses cleaned up from a battlefield.
3) Defenses: while having better KD/Dizzy defense is good, like you said thak will bring your KD up above 100 and with a squadleader in PVP (a must) you wont get dizzy.Squadleaders are rare in this game. I have PvP'ed alot on Bria (not as much as some, but I digress) and have rarely been in the same group as a squadleader that knows his/her job. Meanwhile, while the incredibly vast majority of PvPers don't use a squadleader, a measly Def vs. Dizzy of 40 and an even smaller Def. vs. Posture Change of 20 will ensure that they die all of their deaths on their backs. No amount of Thatkillo will save you, and good luck finding a squadleader. Let me hit you with that equation again: dizzy + posture change = one dead pistoleer. Notice in this equation that no amount of added Def. vs KD will save your ass.
In short, the damage and state skills from smug are still more important then nearly useless state defenses.Losing a ranged stun attack is fine by me if that means I can actually fight in a battle.
Its clear to me that either you dont PVP much or the PVP you do is VERY different then what happens on radiant. You say SL's are rare? Every group is led by a SL here. Everygroup has atleast 1, many time more then 3+, combat medics making the shots to the head pointless since they do less damage. Stun gives you the most valuable defense their is, the ability to cut your enemies damage and defenses, dispatching his quicker. The fact that you dont think last ditch is worth it means that you have never PvP'd with it. On the melee mitigation, i have heard different things from everyone, but its doesnt really matter in the end, if you want to win in REAL pvp, you have to have the triple master or the Pistol All-Star templates, not to mention 10s of millions invested in weapons, armor, and foods.
Koth_Ablon wrote:
Its clear to me that either you dont PVP much or the PVP you do is VERY different then what happens on radiant. You say SL's are rare? Every group is led by a SL here. Everygroup has atleast 1, many time more then 3+, combat medics making the shots to the head pointless since they do less damage. Stun gives you the most valuable defense their is, the ability to cut your enemies damage and defenses, dispatching his quicker. The fact that you dont think last ditch is worth it means that you have never PvP'd with it. On the melee mitigation, i have heard different things from everyone, but its doesnt really matter in the end, if you want to win in REAL pvp, you have to have the triple master or the Pistol All-Star templates, not to mention 10s of millions invested in weapons, armor, and foods.
Ternque01 wrote:
I'll keep this short and sweet. The template that has Desperado/Dirty Fighting/Nov. Commando/Master Pistoleer won't do very well in PvP. It lacks defenses. You only gain defense mainlyfrom Pistoleer.
While you can eat some Thatkillo for Defense vs. KD, you will be dizzied and posture changed in no time, leaving you flopping on the ground.
Here is the template I use: Master Pistoleer, BH 0030, Fencer 0440.
It doesn't look spectacular, but I argue it is one of the best PvP templates available. It grants 145 pistol accuracy and 119 pistol speed. In addition to the Ranged Mitigation 3 from Mast. Pistoleer, you get Melee Mitigation 2 from the fencer.
The defenses vs states is incredible: vs Blind +80, vs Dizzy +80, vs Intimidate +20, vs KD +100, vs Posture Change +70, vs Stun +40. With Thatkillo, you are impossible to KD. If you drink that drink that grants Def. vs Dizzy and be incredibly hard to dizzy. What this means is that you can stay on your feet during a fight. This means you stay alive.
To be honest, you still carry the specials you need to PvP with... mainly Eyeshot. This is a sad, but true, consequence of our poor combat system we current play by. You have enough accuracy to land most of your shots too. Using Intimidate from your brawler tree is of paramount importance also. The important thing is the defenses and accuracy used to attack efficiently and stay alive. What good is Last Ditch if you aren't even around to use it?
Could be.
I don't seem to have any trouble w/o said defenses.
Ternque01 wrote:Koth_Ablon wrote:
Its clear to me that either you dont PVP much or the PVP you do is VERY different then what happens on radiant. You say SL's are rare? Every group is led by a SL here. Everygroup has atleast 1, many time more then 3+, combat medics making the shots to the head pointless since they do less damage. Stun gives you the most valuable defense their is, the ability to cut your enemies damage and defenses, dispatching his quicker. The fact that you dont think last ditch is worth it means that you have never PvP'd with it. On the melee mitigation, i have heard different things from everyone, but its doesnt really matter in the end, if you want to win in REAL pvp, you have to have the triple master or the Pistol All-Star templates, not to mention 10s of millions invested in weapons, armor, and foods.
Intimidate cuts damage output more than stun and also lowers defenses. Do not imply that I do not value a stun attack, it is not worth the skillpoints invested to get it IMO. I am a former longtime triple master, so your thinking isn't strait on that issue. The truth is that triple masters are strong in PvP, but not in the same league as mature PvP templates. I have PvP'ed as a triple master, and I have PvP'ed with my current template. My experience tells me very strongly that I survive more. The triple master, like the All-Star template has weak defense vs. states. You will be blinded, stuned, dizzied, intimidated, posture changed, and KD'd much more often and for longer periods of time.I know that on your server SL's maybe prevalent, but try fighting for Bria for the Rebellion and you might tuck that criticism of calling my PvP "unreal" away. Squad Leaders are used predominantly by Rebels to slice bases. On raids I have witnessed them used on on occasion. That's how things are on my playing field.Furthermore nearly everyone has doctor skills on Bria. Bria took the Combat Medic imbalance to gross proportions. What good is Last Ditch if you can heal it or have it healed with little effort involved? Last Ditch is useless on my server.It's kinda amusing to me, you look at my PvP style and call it incomplete, yet I do the same to you. I suppose your template is better if you travel with a SL everywhere. If you see a SL as often as a commando (not very often) on my server, my template is definitly light years ahead of yours. I see your template and chuckle pretty hard. Chuckle at mine if you feel.As for the melee mitigation which I posses and you do not. Mitigation works regardless of weapon equiped. Melee mitigation 2 cuts 40% of the damage range of a weapon right off the bat. A weapon which does 100-200 damage will now do 100-160. That is significant. The effect is amplified for weapons with low minimum damages. A republic blaster with 100-400 damage range will be automatically reduced to 100-280 damage. It just cut 120 damage from the maximum, and that is hugely significant. Just apply these numbers to melee weapons. Hell a 60-200 vibroknuckler will automatically drop to 60-144 damage. A 200 max VK is pretty nice, but a 144 damage is quite mediocre.I only play this game for PvP man. I've invested 10's of millions in armor attachments and weapons. I pack a 550 geo, a 500 DX-2, and a 500 Republic blaster. I own two 150 str mind fire weapons and a comparable mind poison one. My armor is 30% stun and up near 80-90% base. I scrape triple masters off my shoes.
40% stun(all my 43% stun is gone :/) 90% base +46% PSGs , 565 Geo, 535 Rep. Dont give me this my stuff is better so i win crap. 150 Mind fire is a joke, 300-400 are all to common and as you said, doctors, doctors, doctors. You say "my template is definitly light years ahead of yours" just because people on your server are to ignorant to realize the benefits of SLs? Permaburst run, no dizzy.
Furthurmore, do you think people are oblivious to mitigation? Stun battons are normally in the area of 10 points between max and min, that really makes mitigation pointless, no?
You dont only get the Last ditch with the smuggler tree, if you notice you also get some melee mitigation and 3 other highly usefull specials. Area warcry? how bout a ranged KD, FD is very handy.
You say those are useless but you neglect to think about this, so you defenses to dizzy are high? How about someone spamming dizzy at once per second, they WILL land a dizzy sooner or later, there is no question on that.
All im saying is this, our two templates, you have to chose between better defenses, i would say slightly better but others would say alot better, or a MUCH higher DPS output.
Koth_Ablon wrote:
40% stun(all my 43% stun is gone :/) 90% base +46% PSGs , 565 Geo, 535 Rep. Dont give me this my stuff is better so i win crap. 150 Mind fire is a joke, 300-400 are all to common and as you said, doctors, doctors, doctors. You say "my template is definitly light years ahead of yours" just because people on your server are to ignorant to realize the benefits of SLs? Permaburst run, no dizzy.
Furthurmore, do you think people are oblivious to mitigation? Stun battons are normally in the area of 10 points between max and min, that really makes mitigation pointless, no?
You dont only get the Last ditch with the smuggler tree, if you notice you also get some melee mitigation and 3 other highly usefull specials. Area warcry? how bout a ranged KD, FD is very handy.
You say those are useless but you neglect to think about this, so you defenses to dizzy are high? How about someone spamming dizzy at once per second, they WILL land a dizzy sooner or later, there is no question on that.
All im saying is this, our two templates, you have to chose between better defenses, i would say slightly better but others would say alot better, or a MUCH higher DPS output.
Message Edited by Ternque01 on 11-02-2004 04:54 PM