Pistoleer Archive
Thread: How are BH's bad off?
This comment was posted in another thread. I don't mean to insult or flameSldr4god at all, but I just wanted to point something out.
Sldr4god wrote:
that is why you are changing CH right now. and BH may not even be as good as they should be for it taking 213 skill points to master it.
I just wanted to point out that BH's are mastering 3 professions for 213pts(Marksman, Scout and BH). Meaning they still have 37pts left over to dabble in something else (usually Pistoleer, Medic or CH).
For my full 250, I can't master CH, Medicand Pistoleer (see my sig--I'm not even close to mastering Pistoleer). So, essentially I am a 2-profession master and a Pistoleer dabbler.
3 + 37 extra points > 2 + 31 pts (spent in Pistoleer)
Master CH requires 2 full trees in Scout.
Master Medic requires mastering its own set.
Pistoleer requires the Pistol line in Marksman.
Mind you, I love my template, and I think the BH profession is pretty cool. But, I'm a little tired of hearing people complain cuz they can get 3 masteries for the same price as my 2 (CH and Medic) essentially.
According to the usual argument, since I have spent more skill points to master less professions, I should be "better" than others.
My template onlymarginally works better in PvE than a BH who dabbles in CH (at present they can have the same best-in-the-game PvE tank that I have, and they have an LLC for massive firepower (4000+ damage in PvE), butI can heal my pets better and have more of them out at a time).
BH template rocks mine any day in PvP.
So how much better should the BH's be than everyone else for
1) Less Skill Point expenditure for 3 masteries
2) 37 more points to dabble into other things?
They are 'bad off' because their eyeshot blinds...umm, no that wasn't it, sorry...
They are 'bad off' because their torso shot is a 3x damage targeted ham while our best targeted ham is 2.5x and theirs has a fire dot where ours has nothing...umm, nope, that can't be it either...
They are 'bad off' because they get their LLC with over 1000 max damage we get get our DXwatergun2 that rarely breaks 150 max damage...umm, nope, that can't be it either, hmmmm....
I don't know, you got me, why are BH worse then us???
First, at MBH I get 33 points, not 37 (I'd love 37).
Secondly an MBH masters 2 starter professions and 1 advanced/secondary profession.
The reason you can not master the 3 you want is because 2 of those require other lines from starter professions. So your logic doesn't quite apply.
And it is possible for you to master 3 professions if you change your template.
Also, you are welcome to survival and hunting and rifle lines. The reason BH requires those professions is as a skill point sink, to balance for the supposedly powerful BH attacks that have been nerfed to hell and back, and not allow BHs to dabble too much in other professions.
Let me give you an example for the complaints:
Problem: KD is causing balance problems in PvP and PvE as people are spamming the hell out of it.
Solution by Devs: Let's increase the HAM cost to nerf it.
Problem: There still is a problem with KD.
Solution by Devs: Put a timer on it.
BH issue: The HAM costs are still there. So, our carbine moves still cost a whole lot in HAM. I did not dare use Underhand shot more then once or twice (it is the only decent damage special we have in Carbine line) while leveling in carbine. The seq. now is special,special, heal if using carbine. As a result most BHs hardly use carbines except for state changes, and that using low HAM weapons if not buffed.
So the end result is I can't use my specials with my best weapon unless I am buffed.
Can a Master marksmen defeat a Pistoleer? No...
Why is that? Master marksmen spends 77 points in his profession, while the entire pistoleer tree costs 63?
On a whole master marksmen is alot weaker for a bigger skill point investment....
Why?
Because novice classes suck......(with the exception of medic), they are a means to an end, most classes get too bypass the huge skill point sink of mastering them.....
Eye shots getting nerfed, The scatter is going to way of the FWG5, BH's have no defenses, The class is restrictive and lacks the ability to expand in a game where everyone else can, 66% of the carbine specials are useless and or not working correctly, not to mention the carbine line costs 170+ HAM to use one shot (Which is more then the average damage from apistol hehe) and to top it off BH's spend about 100 points in skills they will absoluty never use.
The fact is pure BH's have Issues, big ones.....The class is poorly thought out, and poorly Implimented, and frankly needs a huge overhaul. After all the BH, as is now, went into effect 6 days before release?
The class did not even get tested...At all....Now every swing of the nerf bat comes down on them, and the Issues that were broken have no hope of being fixed, so tell me, if you were a BH, would you be a little pissy?
Taewyn wrote:
Can a Master marksmen defeat a Pistoleer? No...
Why is that? Master marksmen spends 77 points in his profession, while the entire pistoleer tree costs 63?
On a whole master marksmen is alot weaker for a bigger skill point investment....
Why?
Because novice classes suck......(with the exception of medic), they are a means to an end, most classes get too bypass the huge skill point sink of mastering them.....
Eye shots getting nerfed, The scatter is going to way of the FWG5, BH's have no defenses, The class is restrictive and lacks the ability to expand in a game where everyone else can, 66% of the carbine specials are useless and or not working correctly, not to mention the carbine line costs 170+ HAM to use one shot (Which is more then the average damage from apistol hehe) and to top it off BH's spend about 100 points in skills they will absoluty never use.
The fact is pure BH's have Issues, big ones.....The class is poorly thought out, and poorly Implimented, and frankly needs a huge overhaul. After all the BH, as is now, went into effect 6 days before release?
The class did not even get tested...At all....Now every swing of the nerf bat comes down on them, and the Issues that were broken have no hope of being fixed, so tell me, if you were a BH, would you be a little pissy?
Don't talk about nerf bat, because you guys have seen more fixes then us, better weapons then us (this morning I saw a LLC with over 1000 max damage for sale on my server), and we have received more nerf's then you plus the only special that was fixed is now being nerfed because of the BH crying to nerf us. If you guys are so broken then maybe you should worry less about nerfing other's and worry about your own profession, what comes around goes around.
Bolanos said:
"They are 'bad off' because they get their LLC with over 1000 max damage ...
I don't know, you got me, why are BH worse then us???"
First I got a 29% damage slice on my LLC and it is in high 700s, so 1000 max damage is a stretch or a very rare occurance. From a distance I can do 1K+ damage every 2 seconds with that gun or 2.4K max dmg every second with stopping shot. Guess what I use most of the time?
Secondly, I don't see anywhere where the BH were comparing themselves to Pistoleers directly and saying we were bad off. There are some combinations that rock that include pistoleer/smuggler combinationsand there might have been some observations regarding that.
I suggest we quit pointing the finger at each other and work to resolve issues in the game. Heck you don't even need to worry about PvP balance/inbalance at the moment as PvP has turned into a turn taking game due to massive lag 
.
I was 2/4/4/4 BH and dropped it cause it really sux and is not worth all the skill pts.
I'm going Master Pistoleer and smuggler now
Fahd Krath Master Bounty Hunter/Master Jedi StalkerBolanos said:
"plus the only special that was fixed is now being nerfed because of the BH crying to nerf us. If you guys are so broken then maybe you should worry less about nerfing other's and worry about your own profession, what comes around goes around. "
What pistoleer special is getting nerfed, I must have missed it please let me know?
I am not aware at this moment of any BHs calling for nerfs. There are some idiots that are posting "Pistoleer..dabbler...prevent" type of posts and you'll see myself and others pointing the fallacy in their thinking to them, andtheir suggestionsactually would nerf BHs then anyone else .
Ex-master pistoleer/Ex-2/3/4/4 BH
The argument is essentially that to make pistoleer, you have to spend some 30-odd points (Novice). To make novice BH, you have to spend 150-ish (too lazy to actually count).
Now, at master:
Pistoleer: Novice Marksman + 4 boxes in pistol + 4 more trees (90-ish points, less than it takes just to hit Novice BH)
BH: master marksman + master scout + 4 trees (217)
Now, the devs have stated (or so I've seen paraphrased), that "power" should be roughly based on the number of skill points required for a profession. If this is true, then BH -should- be the more powerful of the two characters in a --pure form--. In a one-on-one fight using only pistols, however, the pistoleer -should- win. In a no-holds-barred one-on-one, the BH should hand the pistoleer his arse. The BH's argument is that since they devote so many SP to their profession, that it should be a powerful and well-rounded profession -by default-. The pistoleer's argument is that they spend HUGE amounts of weapon xp on ONE weapon and should be the master of that weapon. I agree with both sides and have considerable experience in both.
The first problem being that BHs are more powerful by default (FKD,torso,LLC) but have much fewer defenses. I currently see BH as "more powerful" than a single-elite pistoleer, but not by a considerable enough margin to justify the added SP cost. Additionally, progression up the investigation tree is quite literally the most painful grind I've experienced in 7 professions. The second problem is that pistoleer specials, for the most part, blow chunks (random HAM, except for BS3, which is too slow) and that defense mods have been broken since before day 1. If the defensive mods had been fixed in the first month like they should have been, pistoleer would stand alot better chance vs a BH throwing specials. The reason that this debate continues is that the devs keep flailing around with their nerf bats, so everyone needs someone to blame. Pistoleers blame BH for dabbling...BHs blame pistoleers for dabbling...CHs blame everyone for dabbling...TKs are starting to complain about dabbles now...etc...
This whole "grass is greener" argument is older than a fozzilized turd. If you're not happy with your template, change it, you're not locked into one profession. Personally, I'm switching to TK/commando and am quite happy with it so far =)
Tanks wrote:
Bolanos said:
"They are 'bad off' because they get their LLC with over 1000 max damage ...
I don't know, you got me, why are BH worse then us???"
First I got a 29% damage slice on my LLC and it is in high 700s, so 1000 max damage is a stretch or a very rare occurance. From a distance I can do 1K+ damage every 2 seconds with that gun or 2.4K max dmg every second with stopping shot. Guess what I use most of the time?
Secondly, I don't see anywhere where the BH were comparing themselves to Pistoleers directly and saying we were bad off. There are some combinations that rock that include pistoleer/smuggler combinationsand there might have been some observations regarding that.
I suggest we quit pointing the finger at each other and work to resolve issues in the game. Heck you don't even need to worry about PvP balance/inbalance at the moment as PvP has turned into a turn taking game due to massive lag.
There are LLC's over 1k damage, I'm not lieing so don't call me one. If you log onto Lowca, one of the worse server for resources, start at theed, run east to Ace Gun Shop in Goon town. This morning she put up an LLC with over 1k max damage. There has been posts on your own boards with other server's with LLC's of this damage and they have SHOWN screen shots of 10k to 12k PvE damage done in one shot.
We are being nerfed, our repaired Fan Shot is being nerfed back to the way it was, to the same old crap we have in the rest of our tree, random ham useless special.
And we're not pointing finger's. We're not the ones asking for screen shots of other professions one shotting us so we can present them to a dev and say it's overpowering and should be nerfed.
I think my original point was kinda lost in the shuffle...(either that or I didn't express it in a very clean manner)
I've been told that I've got one of the better PvE templates around from the people I group with. Yet, a BH who dabbles in CH can top it fairly easily.
And there's no way I can compete in PvP with this template, even though it's got good fighting potential. Totally rocked by a BH.
BH vs other PvP templates, I can't really say on since I don't have a PvP template.
But on the PvE front, BH's still rock. So I'm saying that maybe it's not as bad as you think...?
they are bad off because it bites to be a mbh. the prof isn't developed very well.
they are bad off because (and this is why they are mad) an expert bh (bh pistol 4) with pistoleer 0343 and medic skills can take out about 5+ mbhs before they get put down (i have done it, lol, heheh, haha).
they are bad off because instead of accepting reality and realizing that if they want to be tough, mbh isn't the way to go, they complain on the boards instead. they are so worked up on making the game imitate the movies that they don't play the game and enjoy it for what it is now.
in short... they are bad off because they are whiners. they chose a broken profession and then get mad when they get near master and it isn't fixed yet. would you head out on a fishing trip with a broken fishing pole and then get mad atthe manufacturer when the fishing pole didn't work for you (or just trade it in for a new one)?
First off the Bh class has only received one, thats right ONE, working fix. That was the fix to the LLC,and even then it wasn't directed toward us. It was part of the Commando fix, they even posted it on the Commando boards.
And as for these other "fixes" lets have a look at them shall we. Investigation missions are still broke, even worse than before (this is our #1 copmlaint). Our entire carbine tree is rolled up into one move, making it all completely redundant. Carbine HAM costs, as stated before, kill us before we can do decent damage with it. Eyeshot is being moved. And it is officially the second hardest profession to master, next to Jedi, of course.(but at least Jedi is probably fun to master).
Just to let you know.Jango killed about 4-5 Jedi's before he was killed by one. And Boba pretty much killed the Sarlacc and survived, something no one believed was possible.
And as far as the whole skill point expenditure goes, the Bh class is an elite-hybrid combat class. As everyone already knows it costs more skill points than any other class. A pistoleer when up against a Bh using a pistol should only have a slightly better chance of winning, but if you use tactics and learn your professions strengths and weakness's and other professions strengths and weakness's you should do fine. If the Pistoleer class was going to be better than the Bh class for only a 92vs217 skill point expenditure then there would be no Bh's. Why would you want to be a second rate combat profession that takes so many skill points? I am in no way saying that Bh's are second rate, but that is what most people are saying they should be. If you want to be as good as a Bh, then go and become one. Stop being lazy and trying to take the easy(very easy) way out.