Pilot Archive
Thread: Can someone explain the Why of this please :)
), and I have modified my suggestions over the course of several threads and experiments. I will now recap them here, for comment, if you want to flame or think this is more of the same old same old and youre tired of it them please click the back button now.- let us respawn with droid programs still running, you repair us for free, why ham string us with a waiting time.
- let us respawn at the entry point to deep space rather than 8km away at the planet space station.
- if we survive a battle in deep space let us get repairs there from either the ISD or the RSS
4) is there any chance of the spawn point for reb/ imperials being slightly randomised? several times now I have gone into deep space only to find myself being totalled while I was still loading. The other player ships load _after_ I appear in the world and have control it seems so if someone is waiting at the spawn point then Im dead before I can see the ship thats doing it. (So I cant even report the player that repeatedly spawn killed me)
Out of these 3 I think item 3 has the most imediate benefit. 1 and 2 would take a lot more work.. especially 1 which I think definately has merit but probably requires more knowlege of how the game acutally works than players actually have.
Comments please (polite ones ) I like a good argument but that's argument in the technical sense.. not an insult and flaming contest.
Message Edited by Tsumitsuki on 04-21-2005 07:24 AM
The ideal for the ground game is that a PvP encounter will last anywhere from 1 to 3 minutes. While I'm not so sure it should last that long in space, I would like to see it last a little longer then it currently does.
IMO, the pilot with the quickest FIRST twitch shouldn't always win. However, if that same pilot moves faster and better three times in a row, they should definiately win. If I'm attacked and make a bad move ... oops, I better get my groove on and start flying right. If I make two bad moves or even three, I deserve to sent back to the Space Station - no question about it.
That said, I'm not so sure that damage reduction is the solution. In fact, I don't really care about the technical solution just yet. I'm more interested in seeing agreement on the high-level vision of what a Space PvP encounter should be. Once that's acheived, the rest are just details.
Drusan wrote:
No one is telling you why you're wrong, Tsu, because they don't know how to do so. Your post makes good sense. A minor amount of dmg reduction in pvp is needed.
Its ok Drusan, In other threads, this thread is the cumulative version of what I think to-date on the whole thing. Just that gathering info and discussing things has involved receiving a fair few insults and flames. An attitude far too prevalent in the SWG community in my opinion.
Message Edited by Tsumitsuki on 04-21-2005 09:29 AM
I think a problem that gets overlooked all too often is that "skill" as many people see it is the ability to dodge shots from another player. Because if one of those shots strikes you're likely to be damaged enough to all but ensure you're demise.
I'm starting to think that Engine Overloads are as much a problem as weapon overload 3. With that program boosting YPR rates it is making all fighters, especially light fighters, VERY hard to hit. Assuming that with wpn overload 3 fixed players will have to watch their shots carefully it won't be a lot of fun to fire until cap runs out and hit nothing.
I'd really like to see engine overload programs not give a boost at all to YPR. This would keep ships turning at a reasonable speed and slow combat down enough that fixing WO 3 alone would have a great chance to fix pvp combat.
It takes most of the skill out of flying when u can use a program that boosts your engine performance that much. I can basically circle strafe around my target because my engine is so fast and manueverable. And I'm in an Xwing. In an a-wing or tie adv it'd be even worse. I like the program boosting my top speed but I don't think boosting YPR should be allowed. The ships with low YPR levels shouldn't be able to compete in dogfights. They are bombers. The EO programs make it possible to take any ship into pvp and have a chance at winning. (Ships like the Bwing are a real long shot but it's possible...)
Tsumitsuki wrote:
So WHY am I so wrong?
everybody aggrees taht something needs to be done.
First, not all of us agree something needs to be done with fighter to fighter combat.
Why you are wrong:
1) With me using CtSS, you would NEVER be able to kill me. I can CtSS every 9.5 seconds, that is restoring *any* damage you may get off every 9-12 seconds. Everyone would fly around pecking at each other forever and it would be as boring as dirtside PvP.
2) You decribe only one on one scenarios. Those are the few rare times you come across someone else. Try flying in big PvP events, with your rules, no one would ever die and there would be very little fun.
3) A lot of people cannot one shot me, 99% of the time I go up against an A-Wing I can survive 2-3 shots in an Oppressor, making for 20-40 seconds of intense 1 on 1 dogfighting...perfect. Which means my shields ARE that much stronger and I CAN take that much more damage than the light fighter.
4) Obsticals in Deepspace, Um, go to Kessel? Using the mass of white dots is a great obstical in DS
5) to your point #3 at the bottom...I do not care about the travel time getting back to DS, but you are right, I do not think the setup Droid programs should take any time...it is just time I spend hypering around or sitting around waiting. I agree that needs to go. I do not think repairs should be available in DS though. Taking the hit of having to leave system if you are that badly damages should be there.
6) Spawn points should not only be randomized, but there shouls be a wait timer on them. X seconds after you zone in you are covert.
Why not try and work inside the existing framework? One shot kills are fine after a 20-30 second dog fight. Honestly I have had way more fun in this sort of PvP than any other MMO ever. The *only* thing I dislike about being blown up is the length of time it takes to run my overloads again. I have been having some great 1v1 in DS lately, against several types of ships, and it has been very fast, but very intense.
If you are talking about POB ships, you are right, those should take a good hammering before going down.
You don't mention what server you are on, or what equipment you fly with. Honestly, it took me a while to get all my ships dialed just right for me, and right for my flight style and PvE or PvP style. I would humbly suggest you spend some time on that as well as some time flying in larger PvP conflicts before calling for the nerf bat.
Think about the movies...hell yes, swarm of fighter vs swarm of fighters and in the first engagement you loose a couple on both sides, even really good pilots, simple due to the odds of a good solid hit.
I am not saying there are not tweaks neccisary, there are. I just do not think Damage Reduction is going to do anything other than make Space PvP like ground PvP, 20 minutes of beating on someone and they boost off laughing.
Ive been in a couple dogfights were it dragged on anywhere from 2 minutes to 5 minutes before one of us scored a hit. I know of a couple ppl who've been in fights even longer. PvP damage being what it is, is the only thing that ended those fights.
The disparity here isn't in damage, the disparity is in who is against who. A couple ace's can lock horns for a good 5 minutes. You put one of those aces against a rookie, its going to last 5 seconds.
Ducimus wrote:
To add an example to Alyxian's point 1.
The disparity here isn't in damage, the disparity is in who is against who. A couple ace's can lock horns for a good 5 minutes. You put one of those aces against a rookie, its going to last 5 seconds.
/agree
I like flying big and heavy stuff. Most of my current PvP experience is in a Y-Wing. I haven't been one-shotted yet in that ship, nor have I one-shotted others with the 2 L8 RE'd reward blasters on board. They may have flown straight for a second too long so I could land 2 or 3 shots in a row. That'll feel like one-shotting on the receiving end. Reduce PvP damage further and finally fix WO3 so the cap actually empties and I'll be immortal. That'll be a fun battle against another pilot of my skill, twisting, turning andjousting for 15 mins, then boost/hyper out.
Fixing WO3 will finally drain the cap, a drained cap is no good for CtSS. Heavier caps and possibly reactors will be needed, changing ship setups. This willchange PvP. Always fix one thing at the time, so I'm in favor of waiting for the WO3 fix before any other changes to PvP.
"--Michael Stackpole, RS IRC