Pilot Archive

Thread: Can someone explain the Why of this please :)

Kalano
Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:56 pm
#14






Halyn wrote:

Instead of reducing damage, a better possibility would be to increase shield strengths for heavy fighters...simply because hit a shunt can only dump so much power into a shield. E.g. it works off solid numbers, not percentages.







Increasing sheild strength would take things out of balance. Unless you mean only in PvP which i think would be a bit harder to code and could cause game killing exploites.


I know this wouldn't be a liked idea but damage reduction in the over all JTL would be, to me that is, the best solution. Right now, i am almost good enough to take on almost anything and survive do to my skills and also really good shields.


What would make JTL a lot more challanging and competitive is an over all weapon damage and then also scale back the npcs so they will not be to difficult with reduced weapon damage. That way balance will be maintained in the force and PvP will be longer lasting and more challanging in the end.


But, this is only my opinion, and not even humble. Is there really ever a humble opinion?




_______________________________________________________________________

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Alyxian
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:12 pm
#15






Kalano wrote:

Increasing sheild strength would take things out of balance. Unless you mean only in PvP which i think would be a bit harder to code and could cause game killing exploites.


Agree, completely...with the exception of POB ships


I know this wouldn't be a liked idea but damage reduction in the over all JTL would be, to me that is, the best solution. Right now, i am almost good enough to take on almost anything and survive do to my skills and also really good shields.


How would damage reduction fix this? I can solo a vette using level 5guns without overloads now, DR would only change the speed at which I can do so


What would make JTL a lot more challanging and competitive is an over all weapon damage and then also scale back the npcs so they will not be to difficult with reduced weapon damage. That way balance will be maintained in the force and PvP will be longer lasting and more challanging in the end.


It would make combat slow and drawn out, just like the ground game, which is what we are trying to avoid in space. It would not be more challenging, just take longer. it would also make PvP a lot like the ground game, where due to Armour (in our case shields and shunting) killing anyone takes forever. It is a twitch game, you die, it is like getting head shotted in any of your favorite FPS's (if you have one). It is how the game is played. What we have now is 1-4 shot kills, perfect! Depending on your load out will depend how many hits you can take and how many shots you have to give to take someone out. It is balanced, which is why you see people PvP in all kinds of chassis, and in all kinds of loadouts. There is no "I win" template, with an "I win" button.


But, this is only my opinion, and not even humble. Is there really ever a humble opinion?


Heh, and we are all alowed to have them The problem with Damage reduction is that in one change you affect too many dynamics and blanaces. We have a really good system now, it needs work, but it is a good system. For it to be improved, small, one at a time changes are required to balanace things out even more first...things like WO3, fix the little things, see where it gets us, tweak gently, not knee jerk react and make things worse










Alyxian Gorgaan
"Just an honest Trader"
Will Fly for Booze
Ships, Paint, Missiles, Droids, and More!
Shop located in Tal Kyrte on Lok, in the Mall
StarSider
Ducimus
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:27 pm
#16



Washell wrote:
Fixing WO3 will finally drain the cap, a drained cap is no good for CtSS. Heavier caps and possibly reactors will be needed, changing ship setups. This will change PvP.





Yup, and its gonna hit imperial ships the hardest. Right now you can get by on an L1 reactor and a L2 RE'd capacitor for just about anything. Not so after WO3 is fixed, will have to rework my ships most likely. *shrug* chances are ill be rebel by then anyway.



Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies

"I'm really bored."
...has mastered the Pilot profession
Halyn
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:29 pm
#17






Ducimus wrote:





Washell wrote:
Fixing WO3 will finally drain the cap, a drained cap is no good for CtSS. Heavier caps and possibly reactors will be needed, changing ship setups. This will change PvP.







Yup, and its gonna hit imperial ships the hardest. Right now you can get by on an L1 reactor and a L2 RE'd capacitor for just about anything. Not so after WO3 is fixed, will have to rework my ships most likely. *shrug* chances are ill be rebel by then anyway.





I know this is horrible to say, but I'm glad it'll hurt Imperials worse...mostly because those little TIEs are hard to hit...




Halyn Lance -- Rara Avis Flight School
Common sense is highly uncommon.
...has mastered the Pilot profession.
"I'll type this slowly so even Imperials can understand..."--Michael Stackpole, RS IRC
JediNg
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:43 pm
#18

In my experience, only sub-par pilots die quickly. I can then gather that 100% of the whiners here are crappy pilots. Thank you.



Ritha Egasiso - 12 experiment point Master Weaponsmith.
To BB, Jo-Jo, Reilly, Beano, Dipper, Flat Top, Chuckles, Jolly, Crashdown, Sheppard, Dash, Flyboy, Stepchild, Puppet, Fireball...
You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't?
Stand by, FTL.
On the day before pub 10, jdmaldo said: "for everyone who grinded the last months of their lives away and didn't get jedi: owned"
Alyxian
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:54 pm
#19






Halyn wrote:





Ducimus wrote:





Washell wrote:
Fixing WO3 will finally drain the cap, a drained cap is no good for CtSS. Heavier caps and possibly reactors will be needed, changing ship setups. This will change PvP.







Yup, and its gonna hit imperial ships the hardest. Right now you can get by on an L1 reactor and a L2 RE'd capacitor for just about anything. Not so after WO3 is fixed, will have to rework my ships most likely. *shrug* chances are ill be rebel by then anyway.





I know this is horrible to say, but I'm glad it'll hurt Imperials worse...mostly because those little TIEs are hard to hit...






You rebs with your damn little A-Wings should not be talking



Alyxian Gorgaan
"Just an honest Trader"
Will Fly for Booze
Ships, Paint, Missiles, Droids, and More!
Shop located in Tal Kyrte on Lok, in the Mall
StarSider
Slysix
Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:24 pm
#20






JediNg wrote:

In my experience, only sub-par pilots die quickly. I can then gather that 100% of the whiners here are crappy pilots. Thank you.







So your in favour of having those crappy pilots not learning from their mistakes. If they keep on going out into DS and die in 5 seconds everytime you think their gonna keep going out into DS just so you can blow them out of the sky again?


They crappy pilots learn nothing. You learn nothing.


Actually the crappy pilots learn something.....don't go into Deep Space.Sogreat,you end up playing in the sandbox with by yourself.


Flying in Deep Space now just feels too much like whacking seal cubs with a 2 by 4 during culling season.


Current Record PvP:23-1 (that one was cuz I was flying for about 8 hours and my attention was wandering)



JediNg
Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:54 pm
#21






Slysix wrote:





JediNg wrote:

In my experience, only sub-par pilots die quickly. I can then gather that 100% of the whiners here are crappy pilots. Thank you.







So your in favour of having those crappy pilots not learning from their mistakes. If they keep on going out into DS and die in 5 seconds everytime you think their gonna keep going out into DS just so you can blow them out of the sky again?


They crappy pilots learn nothing. You learn nothing.


Actually the crappy pilots learn something.....don't go into Deep Space.Sogreat,you end up playing in the sandbox with by yourself.


Flying in Deep Space now just feels too much like whacking seal cubs with a 2 by 4 during culling season.


Current Record PvP:23-1 (that one was cuz I was flying for about 8 hours and my attention was wandering)








Read my message. I did not state what I am or am not in favour of. I am not responsible for your assumption. Thank you



Ritha Egasiso - 12 experiment point Master Weaponsmith.
To BB, Jo-Jo, Reilly, Beano, Dipper, Flat Top, Chuckles, Jolly, Crashdown, Sheppard, Dash, Flyboy, Stepchild, Puppet, Fireball...
You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't?
Stand by, FTL.
On the day before pub 10, jdmaldo said: "for everyone who grinded the last months of their lives away and didn't get jedi: owned"
Slysix
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:47 am
#22









JediNg wrote:


Read my message. I did not state what I am or am not in favour of. I am not responsible for your assumption. Thank you





My apologies for making the assumption.


But I still stand by my clubbing baby seals analogy.



Ramona_Garcia
Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:56 am
#23

/sigh. I am SOOOOOO TIRED OF THIS.


Ok, instead of me trying to explain it, do this: Go on a server, find a good A-Wing or Interceptor/Advanced pvp pilot. Equip a level 3 gun or two. Try to kill the pilot. See how Cap to shield makes him or her unkillable.


Want to do the theory most people without actual pvp experience are so fond of? say your level 3 gun does an average of oh.. 600ish damage on average. Double for WO3, halve it for efficiency and 25% pvp dmg reduction... 600ish per shot. My shield in my interceptor is 1700ish, backed by about 1K armor front and back. Most Awing/Advacneds mount similar shields. Oh, look, a clean hit... with both guns even! Shield at 40% Cap to shield - shield is full again. Usually takes you 15 seconds to land another shot, by then my DI has recharged already...And I got armor to spare still.


Even with the "oh so evil" pvp damage I had a 5 to 10 minute dogfight against a good awing pilot, both landing several hits that were shunted away until one got lucky and landedtwo full hits on a weakened shield in short order.


Really, damage reduction will make awings and interceptors/advanceds unkillable. We already have awing pilots survive for minutes with half a dozen pvp veterans shooting at them in a dogfight, so I shudder to think at what this stupid damage reduction would do to pvp.



Ramona Garcia
Dancer
Neutron Pixies



A couple of stories
JediNg
Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:01 am
#24

Don't bother. People think they're invincible in their oppressors.



Ritha Egasiso - 12 experiment point Master Weaponsmith.
To BB, Jo-Jo, Reilly, Beano, Dipper, Flat Top, Chuckles, Jolly, Crashdown, Sheppard, Dash, Flyboy, Stepchild, Puppet, Fireball...
You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't?
Stand by, FTL.
On the day before pub 10, jdmaldo said: "for everyone who grinded the last months of their lives away and didn't get jedi: owned"
Kitten_Starsider
Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:28 am
#25

Thanks for pointing the things out that i was too tired to do yesterday evening (wrote my second final today -english by the way).


When I go up for some space pvp i expect to die. I will do my best not to but I will not be disappointed. Furthermore,I greatly appreciate any feedback wheni die just as much asI am willing to share my tactics and ideas with people thatI managed to blow up.

I think that creates a way more friendly atmosphere as I want to have fun together with my opponent, even if we try to blow each other up.


Additionally, you also did not manage to compare heavy ships with light ships. Two image rec2 missiles at the same time curently take out near any light ship. If you fire them at close range small ships stand no chance to use countermeasures against never missing, intertia-less missiles. At very best I can get my opponent to fire them at range so i can use cms and go into close combat but this already only buys me 6 seconds. Now you want to improve their shields on top of that? Or reduce my damage while they can still hit me?


And that on top of the 50% damage nerf that every PvP ship will see when they fix WO3?


Kitten



Join the Pink Side of the Force!
Tumbler2002
Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:43 am
#26

Want to do the theory most people without actual pvp experience are so fond of? say your level 3 gun does an average of oh.. 600ish damage on average. Double for WO3, halve it for efficiency and 25% pvp dmg reduction... 600ish per shot. My shield in my interceptor is 1700ish, backed by about 1K armor front and back. Most Awing/Advacneds mount similar shields. Oh, look, a clean hit... with both guns even! Shield at 40% Cap to shield - shield is full again. Usually takes you 15 seconds to land another shot, by then my DI has recharged already... And I got armor to spare still.


LOL, lemme put this into perspective.

Lvl 3 Guns do up to 1000 dmg.

Current weapons that players are using do between 1500-4200 dmg. (lvl 7-10)
Lets assume average across that range is 2800.

Your example of stepping down to lvl 3 guns would be equal to there being a pvp dmg reduction of 65%. That seems higher than what most ppl are wanting.

And if it takes 15 seconds to land a shot I really want to run into you cause I have really good aim and I have yet to spend more than 15 seconds in a fight total. In my ship it takes about 10 seconds to use my DI again and in that time I'm usually firing, if I"m lucky I'll have a half cap charge with may help my shields a little but it certainly doesn't recharge them all the way.
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