Pilot Archive

Im in the process of writing up a training/reference manual, and a thought hit me like a brick in the face. I was going over in my mind about Turning, Rate, radius, corner velocity, engines... just generally brainstorming how i'd cover these topics. Sort of just mentally rehearsing what id write. Then a statment flashed at me.

In a turning fight, A pilot is only as good as his engine.


Now.. hold da bus there rapax. Whatever happened to, oh i dunno, skill being being greater than equipment? That got me thinking about it more. Once you get past the first pass, it is all about getting inside the other guys turn circle. I think for the most part, every person that has beaten me in a dogfight, has always had a better engine.

Im not drawing any conclusions, but i thought it would make an intresting topic.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-05-2005 01:52 PM

Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-05-2005 02:01 PM

Wrong. Just plain wrong. There are some situations where engines make all the difference, but there are situations where it doesn't. A good pilot vs. a bad pilot = the good pilot almost always wins, regardless of who's got the better pyr.

Well like i said, its a contraversial statement, One that i am not intending to prove or disprove.

We all, (myself included) want to beleive that pilot skill is always the greater factor. But is that really the case?

Just a little criticial thinking. This isnt a very good topic if your unwilling to critique yourself and the game you play.

EDIT:
I have to add that i'm ommiting a large portion of the play. Im talking about just a circle fight. Suriving the initial engagemetn and being able to lead and draw a bead on your target is something i consider a basic fundamental, and am not considering it in this thread.

Just.. pure.. turning fight.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-05-2005 02:00 PM

I would have to agree, i always talk to whoever i lose to and discuss what they have on their ship and such, and more often than not, if we were in a turning fight and i was killed- they had a higher YPR engine. this dosent really bother me, but it is true on my part.
(edited for clarity)

Message Edited by WingZero890 on 07-05-2005 02:12 PM

Is not knowing how to kit your ship just as much an aspect of player skill and knowledge as knowing how to survive the initial pass? I say that the learning required to make/get that good engine is just as valid a demonstration of skill, since in most cases those really good engines aren't made then given to some new kid.

I'll go out on a limb and say this:

Good pilot great engine vs Good pilot poor engine, the engine will win.

Bad pilot great engine vs Good pilot poor engine, the engine may give them a few engagements, but the good pilot will win the overall.

When dealing with equally skilled pilots, its true. Two pilots, who know their planes, who know the limits of their machines, who know the little ins and outs of flying, then yes, the more maneuverable takes the win. But by this logic, its also the chassis that determines the win.Final YPR is a factor of both engine and chassis.

The greatest pilot alive simply cannot will his ship to turn harder than its designed to.

In my minds eye any typical fight comes in two phases.

1.) Initial engagement.
always risky

2.) Turning
Get inside the other guys turn circle.


Thats really, all there is to it.

You either kill him (or be killed) on the initial engagement, or you get into a turning match.

once you get to the turning phase, the two things that matter most are:
1.) Your engine
2.) your throttle setting.

You use Both in an attempt to make a smaller turn circle than your opponent. All both of pilots are really doing, is trying for a lead pursuit for a gunshot. Smaller turn circle = more opportunities to fire. If your on the outside, you don't see him as often as he sees you.

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Ducimus wrote:

once you get to the turning phase, the two things that matter most are:
1.) Your engine
2.) your throttle setting.

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Yup, and if I am skilled enough to know my setting and get it locked in really fast, I have an advantage for even just a split second over a faster engine. This is where the skill comes in.

SA also plays a part here, I went to DS the other night on a repair run in my Opp, zoned in, spammed the "Z" key, keep in mind I was pretty heavily damaged, this was after helping on the freelance Kash vette and duking it out with those tier 5 gunboats. Instantly hit my hyperspace plot, plotted a course and engaged hyperdrive. As I am doing this I target an X-Wing with the "Z" key, and kick thrusters to full. I was in my Opp, damaged, but he saw me so I had to last to my hyper count at least.

Initial pass, he missed, I think I missed, turning fight with my engine below 40% operational, I dropped to optimal, and in less than a turn had him in sights and vaped him. I *should* have been an easy kill for him, I just had some skill. skill being, I knew my ship, knew my throttle setting, knew when to crank hard to get into that turn fight, and knew what I had to do to get my shot.

He blew up, I spammed the Z key for the second red dot I had seen on radar coming up fast. Reb Bellubab. At this point I am thinking, "Ouch Time" as my engine is near toast, armour is gone, and he is in a much faster ship than I. I spin on my axis to make the initial pass hard, and before the spin is finished, hyperdrive kicks in...had totally forgotten about it at this point. One disappointed reb, and me too as I was really getting into the fight

End point, heavy damage, sluggish ship, and still won by virtue of what I would like to think of as skill, not my engine.

What you say has merit, but I would not discount skill. Besides, there are things to do to increase your chances of getting a shot of in a turning fight, and if you have the skills to use them, you can prevail against a better chassis and engine. I did it against a JSF in my RG Int too, and if they were not running a better engine than I, they should have been

Message Edited by Alyxian on 07-05-2005 02:48 PM

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1.) Initial engagement.
always risky

2.) Turning
Get inside the other guys turn circle.

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The boost trick is risky, especially if they are already more manuverable. 9/10th of the time I will be on your tail and vape you with that trick. It works against those that do not expect it, but that is about it.

Most definatly, and I am in no way arguing that PRY is a huge equalizer. I am just saying that there is a bit more to it than having the best engine