Pilot Archive
Thread: A controversial statement
Attacca wrote:
The trick to spinning battles is also a matter of playing with your throttle. Your maximum turning radius won't necessarily line up a shot for you, sometimes a slower speed (covering less distance) or a higher speed (less turn, more distance) can be equally effective.
That der pilgrim is called basic flight geometry.
At this time i will add that i truly believe L6 engines, are obsolete. Good ole "pre nerfs" unless RE'd out to hit 1.3 radius on the chassis aint the shiznitt anymore. An any ship that cannont fit an L8 engine are also out of the race.
I generaly agree, but getting past that first pass on a ship with a big gun and/or missile spread can be difficult (against a good pilot), much less fighting against multiple foes.
Fuss
Ducimus wrote:
Unless your like me and whitewash most everything as "fundamental" or just plain common sense
Alyxian wrote: I am just saying that there is a bit more to it than having the best engine
Seriously, thesedays, best engine and smallest hitbox is all i find myself looking at.
Well, ok. So I do the same. I still maintain your "fundamentals" and how instinictual they are, boils down to skill. You can know them, but if they do not just flow from your fingers at the right time, you are vape bait. I believe that constitutes skill:
knowl·edgenŏl'ĭj n.
- The state or fact of knowing.
- Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
- The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
- Learning; erudition: teachers of great knowledge.
- Specific information about something.
- Carnal knowledge.
skillskĭl n.
- Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience. See synonyms at ability.
-
- An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body.
- A developed talent or ability: writing skills.
- The quality of being able to do something, especially the physical, mental, financial, or legal power to accomplish something.
- A natural or acquired skill or talent.
- The quality of being suitable for or receptive to a specified treatment; capacity: the ability of a computer to be configured for use as a file server
As you see, knowlege is one thing, applying it is...skill 
Ducimus wrote:
In a turning fight, A pilot is only as good as his engine.
Now.. hold da bus there rapax. Whatever happened to, oh i dunno, skill being being greater than equipment? That got me thinking about it more. Once you get past the first pass, it is all about getting inside the other guys turn circle. I think for the most part, every person that has beaten me in a dogfight, has always had a better engine.
Ya there are going to be times when you F'ed up and zigged when you should have zagged. But said people already know this. Your human, you WILL F' up at some point. Doesnt really constitute any lack of skill as long as you know you F'ed up and why, that just makes it a bad decision and thats all there is to it.
Personnaly if i were to talk to you like i critize myself ( I am my worst critic), it would be something like...
"You are not elite. You are NOT a good pilot. There is always something more you can try. there must be something else you do not know, something else to be learned. Nothing is ever "good enough". There is always something else. Why did you win that fight? No its not because you are good, its becaus he made a mistake, what was it? Dont do what he did. Why did you lose that fight? what mistake did you make? Try not do EVER do that again. Did you learn something? GOOD. If not, you suck!"
Somedays i "F" up and i dont care, other days i do. Somedays im just not at my best and have the reaction time of a sloth, other days im at the top of my game. Somedays i will deliberatly do something stupid just to test an idea out. Usually results in my death, but i learned more and thats what its all about. But i am always my worst critic. Theres a point where all the "knowlege" and "skill" seem to fade into the background as a "fundamental" and you start fine tuning your focus for some kind of greater edge. And i gotta tell ya, engines are smacking me in the mug
About 5 times in the last 2 days to be exact
This is turning into a great discussion.
I agree that pilot skill is just about everything in an engagement. However there are times where the better pyr helps out tremendously. But..... when you know your ship, know your strengths/weaknesses with that ship then you can compensate against the better engine. Boosting away at the right time can be effective. But only at the right time. Like it's been said 9 times out of 10 boosting out lets your opponent get on your tail. Now for me I actually use the boosting out quite effectively if I can't get inside my opponents circle and it looks like he's inside mine.
An experience I had couple weekends ago was when I was fighting a JSF while in my Awing. The pilot was really really good, one of the best i've seen. But I also think that had more to do with the ship and engine he had in it. I had my pre-nerf lvl 6 engine and I could not out turn him. Went back and reworked my ship and stuck my lvl 8 engine in with a slightly smaller gun and still could not outturn him. Everything turn he did allowed him to "fly backwards". So in that instance the better engine counts for a whole lot. Not to mention the JSF has the smallest hit profile, so hitting him on the head to head was pretty much none exsistant. And once in the turning fight, boosting away to try and get away was out of the question. I know, it's that dreaded JSF, lol (but that's another discussion for another thread, not this one). But that helps explain where a better engine can be all the difference.
>>
Prenerfs are obsolete. I know i said it already but ill say it again, L6 engines are dinosaurs now. (unless you have an UBER RE job that hits 1.3)
As an imperial pilot, who's bugged and can't get the RG tie, and refuses to fly the composite in space, my options have dwindled.
I prefer my T/I. Problem is, 50K mass. Mass has never been an issue to me, tell now. If i had 15K more mass, id be ok. But fitting an L8 into it Plus an L7 REd boltdriver, id have to give up more then im willing to give up.
That leaves me with the Heavy tie, T/A and T/O.
Problem with the Heavy Tie and T/A. Well, if you can reguarly score hits against a competant pilot flying a JSF with an RE'd starmap reward engine running EO4, with chinmounted guns... you have far greater aim than i have ever been able to achieve.
That leaves me with the T/O and a MKII IR missle job that i try to avoid using.
I miss my interceptor
Oh I understood what you said. I somewhat agree. But my lvl 6 engine isn't a slouch either. But it fits perfectly into your controversal statement of does the better pyr engine allow you to win in a strictly turning fight. And in that sense I would say yes. The example I gave some what proves this.
I myself have not brought myself to get the JSF. I've flown the grevious once, and actually had a great fight in it. But I was only flying it because a buddy of mine wanted me to "pimp" his ship out. Which I did. I primarily do most of my pvp'ing in my regular xwing. Yes regular lol. But I use a lvl 10 engine that lets me hit 1.4. So i'm happy with it. I just present a huge profile haha.
Message Edited by rcoe6663 on 07-05-2005 07:02 PM
Ducimus wrote:
That der pilgrim is called basic flight geometry.
Attacca wrote:
The trick to spinning battles is also a matter of playing with your throttle. Your maximum turning radius won't necessarily line up a shot for you, sometimes a slower speed (covering less distance) or a higher speed (less turn, more distance) can be equally effective.
At this time i will add that i truly believe L6 engines, are obsolete. Good ole "pre nerfs" unless RE'd out to hit 1.3 radius on the chassis aint the shiznitt anymore. An any ship that cannont fit an L8 engine are also out of the race.
You call it basic like I don't know what I'm talking about. As someone who looks for PVP most nights, the most common mistakes I see people make are either getting stuck circling and refusing to manuever or use any other ship skills, and pilots who don't understand that PYR and your maximum turning point are not the best options. Space combat can be much more complex than it's normally made out to be. You have to think creatively.
Very much agree on the level 6 engines being obsolete at Ace level. I'm continually rethinking my ship loadouts, especially post RotW.
We haven't even touched on the ability to choose where to fight, a basic principle in PVP.
Good thoughts though, I am enjoying this thread too.
Message Edited by Attacca on 07-05-2005 07:04 PM
As an experiment though, i did intentinoally not try any extra manuevring (Im quite fond of barrell rolls normally), just to see how tight i circle i could make, to see if could get inside. It didnt work of course, but i had to try it just once. After that though it kind of convinced me that my engine wasn't going to cut it anymore.