Pilot Archive
Thread: Large Scale PvP Tips
Here are some basics.
Forget Deep space. Forget about it. It doesn't exist for large scale pvp. Not only can it be very laggy but your cutting out a lot of potential players. We would have never established our large scale events if we had tried to do them in Deep space. Sure the no decay is nice but any ace can hop into DS between fights for repairs anyhow. Also it would get old. Just the same old sector every battle and it has very little in the way of interesting features.
It's all about the story. Most of the hardcore PvPers on Starsiders are not doods. Starsider is also a RP server so all our events have a story or a senerio. The devs won't create any content for us so we have to create our own and when it comes to this sort of thing player created content is always better. Why are we fighting in Tatooine space. Why must we escort this Y-8 from Dantooine station to the Dantooine Wrath hyper point. These kinds of things are importatnt to selling your event.
Try to keep your rules to a minimum. We basically have three or four rules. No load camping. Although this one is hard to manage and sometimes it will happen. No E-pulse. Avoid targeting engines. The last one is also difficult to manage because when your ship blows all the way up some of you parts can take damage so it causes some confusion.
Lay off the drama. There is no reason to PvP in space other than fun. We are not tied into the GCW unless you count patroling for faction grinders but that's a different thing all together. Accusations of foul play usually escolate and can remain a problem for several events. I did a lot of ground PvP on Ahazi before I rolled a toon on Starsider for JTL. No matter how cleanly a battle went there was always someone would start crap about it. People were always sore loosers or even sore winners. Because we have no reason to pvp in space other than fun you can't afford this kid of crap. This ties directly into the next part.
Event organizers. Each side needs a team of organizers. Not just one person. The duties, like organizing the fleets and writing the senerios need to be spread out to avoid burnout. Also having a team of leaders from both sides helps when resolving conflicts. If only one person is in charge then when something goes wrong it's more likely that person will take it personally. It's much better for a group of people to try to resolve conflicts. It helps diffuse the situation.
Squadrons. I feel squadrons are essential to large scale space pvp. Either fully dedicated PA squadrons or squadrons formed in a larger guild. The ground game has a lot of attractions. For one thing it has far more content. Most PAs have a small number of unorganized pilots who get ace then do nothing with it. Kind of a "Been there. Done that. Got the badge." kind of thing. It's difficult to keep a pilot focused unless there are a lot of other pilots to work with. A good squadron size is about 8-12 or so pilots and a leader. I've learned an amazing amount about JTL after forming a squadron. There are very few pilots out there who don't know something you don't know. If you form squadrons it's easier to organize large events because you already have groups of people who want to fly together against other groups of people.
That's all I got. I hope some more experienced types will chime in here with some more detailed information.
Very wise words indeed. Er, what could I add? Well, I've been in on two starsider space pvp event snow and both were awesome. First time round, the imps kicked up a fuss apparently because they thought people were targetting their engines but nothign major. The last one we had was awesome too. I was honoured to be witness to some of the best flying I ever saw. Better though, some of the finest comradery I've ever been witness to.
Out of experiencing organising an event on Bria, I must say that as an organiser you will need infinite patience and a very non-judgemental view.
Actual flying wise, it is much different to your normal '1v1' scenarios or even group skirmishes because there are so many targets out there and it feels a lot of the time like they're all out to get -you-..even when they're not. The best advice I can give is find a wingman. On starsider, I've been flying with a couple of people regularly and I think I've found a wingman (called Risian) who also flies an A-wing. Try to get Teamspeak working..even if you can't speak yourself, listening in on comm chatter is very useful.
In addition, to anyone who comes to Starsider to join the pvp fray, LOAD COUNTERMEASURES! 
, these people love their missiles which I must admit was a little alien to me at first. I was used to having someone achieve the occasional missile lock on me on Bria, then most f the time I'd chaff it. When you're in a large furball and sometimes more than one person is trying to get a lock on you...you -will- get hit sometimes and often this is fatal 
Attitude wise, the best advice I can give is 1. Be humble without being a kissass 2.Be confident in what you know works for you but never intrude on someone elses tactics if what they do is working for them (apart from if they start e-pulsing ) 3. Take it seriously to the extent that you try your best and strive to improve each time, but -never- make it personal...that can only end up in a flame war and 4. Learn somthing from each scenario and 5. Never be afraid of extending congratulations to someone who shot you down. As long as no cheating or E-pulsing was going on..and to a lesser extend engine targetting was going on, every kill is a good kill, every victory is a sweet one and every loss has somthing for you to learn from
Oh..btw. Kill wise. Now everyone wants to be out there scoring lots of kills and not getting hit right? It is natural human instinct to achieve. Well, in large scale events, teamwork is essential and the willingness to negate one of the kills you 'thought' you got to someone else is sometimes needed. I mean, soemtimes with multiple people after one or more enemies, you -all- might make a valid hit on the enemy. There is no use arguing though who made the kill. I saw enough of that on Bria, but on Starsider, from what I see we get the 'assist' attitude where people are like "Wow, nice shot" and "That was a great group effort to bring down that guy just then". I guess it is there where I am trying to push thepoint of being humble. In fact, in large pvp events, you'll find out just exactly what role your ship is going to fulfill. Are you a missile boat? A gunship, a light interceptor?..or maybe a combination of everything? I must stress, Teamwork and an all round good natureto every participant, enemy or friend is essential for the smooth running of any space pvp event.
Message Edited by LeaphChausew on 08-25-2005 08:13 AM
PaceNebulon wrote:
Leaph touched on it a little bit but I thinkattitude toward the enemy is a big factor too. Just because you are shooting at someone doesn't mean that they are a bad person. Unfortunatly I have seen a bad attitude like this take some really good pilots out of the game. Not sure about the rebel side but the Imp side has had its moments ofacting likethe players on the rebel sideare the enemy in an actual war. This attitude kills the fun for everyone... the rebels because they get accused of stuff they aren't doing and the Imps because they get tired of all the whining. I think the best way to handle this attitude is to stop it as soon as it starts. If someone makes a comment about the other side shooting engines, don't let the masses get spurred up by it because it will get out of control and people will not want to fly in the large battles.
Exactly. It just isn't worth it. If the common goal is to have large space pvp events, -everyone- is equally responcible for playing fair. It really isn't so much about the winning and personal glory so much as the taking part, having fun and being part of a story driven event. Voicing petty accusations about things which aren't happening is just cheap. If the point of an event was soley about winning, loadkilling and e-pulse 3 would be allowed...and we really would'nt want that.
Im looking farward to my first space event on Starsider. Its this saturday i think.
I had the pleasure last night of watching and dueling with some of the rebs pilots. I was realy my very first pvp experance and i was amazed at how difernt it was from PVE. I went from thinking i was a pretty good pilot to thinking i have a lot to learn and these guys are exactly the ones i need to learn from.
Even tho i didnt score one single kill no one gloated and even told me good shot on the few hits i did score.
I joined Grey Ghost Squad a few days ago great group of players helped with 2 vette missions last night (i know its soloable but its was great to have friends in to work with).
I know this is probly outside the post topic but all i can say is iam glad i moved to starsider!
Personaly i thought it was just cool to be in space with people i reconized from the boards.
On team work and humility, this actually applies to so many aspects of life it's unbelievable. When a pilot in large scale PvP is in the limelight and getting the glory, there are people in the shadows helping to get them there (though not in a TIE/LD
). Those people in the shadows are keeping opponent ships busy if nothing else. They're the ones warning when more fighters are incoming. Things like that. It's sort of like the ground game. Many times, success happens not because your side has the better glory hounds but the better meat shields willing to do their part regardless of who gets the glory.
PaceNebulon wrote:
Leaph touched on it a little bit but I think attitude toward the enemy is a big factor too. Just because you are shooting at someone doesn't mean that they are a bad person. Unfortunatly I have seen a bad attitude like this take some really good pilots out of the game. Not sure about the rebel side but the Imp side has had its moments of acting like the players on the rebel side are the enemy in an actual war. This attitude kills the fun for everyone... the rebels because they get accused of stuff they aren't doing and the Imps because they get tired of all the whining. I think the best way to handle this attitude is to stop it as soon as it starts. If someone makes a comment about the other side shooting engines, don't let the masses get spurred up by it because it will get out of control and people will not want to fly in the large battles.
I must confess i have fallen into this trap MANY times. It is very easy to paint one faction with a blanket from bad prior experiences. For example, I have been a colonel twice in both factions. Ive played boht sides quite a bit in otherwords, and be it on the ground or in space, every time i have been cheated or greifed it was *always* by a rebel player. Does that make them all bad? No, of course not, some of my best friends in the game are rebel, but it became incredibly easy for me to paint the faction with a wide brush.
When JTL was in its first months, i was in brias only pilot PA that acutally managed to achieve something long enough to have its own city on the map. While there i ultimatly found myself in a position of influence, and i was training people to fight like its a real war. I wasnt after fair play or sport, i was downright mean, and i was playing to win. I expected a harsh unforgiving opposite, i expected the worst (based on past experiences from rebels on the ground - all of it bad), so i was planning to dish out exactly what i expected to recieve. I wanted the empire to control the skies, to dominate deepspace, and i was in my mindset at the time willing to do anything within the boundries of the game rules to do that. I encouraged thing like oppressor's (w/ a wingman) or blockading the rebels deep space station in dantoone to blast any rebels trying to get in to FP farm, overt partrols, i wanted to hunt them all down with extreme prejudice.
Ultimatly, over time, my expectations were proved wrong, and JTL is nothing like what i orginaly thought it was going to be. Sometimes though, i still find it easy to break out the wide brush, yet almost to punctuate my own hipocracy, i know full well both sides are equally guilty of greif/exploitive play, i only took solice in that i hadnt SEEN it personnaly from my own faction. My solution to this factional fanboy problem, something which i abhore and am guilty of at the same time, is to go neutral and not take sides and just fly and enjoy myself.
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As an aside My new dream in JTL is to be in, or help create a total mercenary fighter unit. Have gun will travel, JTL's version of "Executive Solutions". Of course to do that, ill have to spend another 50 dollars and move again
Anyway, when you get right down to it, one factions a terrorst, the other factions a nazi, and i personally cant get into any of that. So both factions are of equal worth(lessness) in my eyes, so i figure ill be an equal opportunity target for both.Sorry for the Hijack, i had to get that off my chest.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 08-25-2005 10:33 AM
TomoRainer wrote:
Communication is probably the key to victory in these things. Your pilots need to know what to do and when to do it. That doesn't mean you need to be bossing them around at all times, but clear orders and objectives are essential to keeping any kind of organization.
Stuff changes in a hurry up there, too, so having an effective comm network is way important for keeping people updated. TeamSpeak rocks, but chat channels work fine, too--especially if you set up redundancies in your network, like by working through a single chat channel and then groupchat as well, and by having squadron leaders taking and dispersing orders from an overall commander. Any method that channels information back and forth quickly and clearly should work, though.
As far as tactics go, I try to remember that it's very likely that at any given time at least someone is going to be shooting me or lining up a missile for my tailpipe, so flying straight for any longer than a second tops is a bad idea. This makes shooting people difficult at times, but you have to find a balance between keeping evasive and keeping the firepower on.
Tomo. I am reliably informed that you are one of those pilots who fall under the "ARGH! GANK THAT PILOT NOW!!?!?" category
Oh i believe it. People ingame and inforums and the people you hear on Teamspeak are two different things and its quite amusing.
I think i got your point Duc i just as usual went to far in explaning something and got to deep in for my own good as usual lol.
the mins running radar vid i seen a few of those myself and otehrs runnig it daoc is full of cheaters another reason i left.
i stil lam unsure what cheats they have for this game and i hope its a long time before i find out what they are.
Iam still tring to get use to the fact that we can macro without fear lol and havin that radar in the corner still feels weird to me.
but once again iam hogging space o na threadthat is about pvp tatics with matter about cheaters so iam goign to drop this and let the prosteach mesome things.
I love the open comunity we have here.
Ducimus IM not even really sure what a cheat is in this game pretty new to it all.
But this trap of calling one side cheaters or exploiters applies tomost games
I will use my daoc experience since its what i know the best and i feel into this trap there and see it now in hind sight.
I was a die hard hib on Merlin,over 2 yrs of game play i was at the point i felt mids always cheated even kidded around about when you rolled a mid you were given radar and speed hack in your UI (no daoc doesnt have the nice little radar that we have in swg).
Albs never went out without 2 fg of players and zerg everything ( this part is still true and nto really cheating but still harsh to some one who soloed or only ran in pug's)
I came to HATE mids and albs even to the point of despising them ( didnt help that unlike here the only way you faced a opposing realm was in PVP so you never got the chance to pve wit them or other wise get to know them outside of a fight you couldnt even talk to them ingame). It became personal and looking back very sad that i let HATE come into a GAME. It probly was one of the reasons i left the game besided the comapny doing some things i didnt like and generaly being feed up with ground grind.( why i love being a pilot)
Lesson learned and i plan to use here the other side are people jsut like me sitting behind a desk tring to play and enjoy a game also!