Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: PvP Damage
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MonsofoLexius
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:20 am
#1
Focus threads: One of my jobs as a Corro is to try to have a good understanding of how the community feels. Iam looking for insight into how you all would feel about specific topics. These will be semi-directed posts to help me understand what you are all thinking. I may from time to time ask you forget about specific topics like bugs. This is to help me get an understanding of how you would/might feel after some things are fixed or changed.
Rules:
- Keep it civil
- Argue your point nicely
- Think about the other sides points of view, lets hear some real counter points
- BRING IT!
Lets talk about what you would all like to see PvP wise, role played stories are more then welcome. Lets see what you all want me to push forward! I want to hear to hear what is on your minds, I truelly do. So post it!!!!
Message Edited by MonsofoLexius on 02-16-2005 02:58 PM
ajag
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:44 am
#2
1.- Different Ships =Different Damage.
We all know what I mean by this. Right now all ships pretty much do the same damage and receive the same damage in PvP. Sure, a Krayt can fire 3 weapons and an A-wing can carry only one, but that is just an overkill of power as you really need one gun to 1-2 shoot any ship. Not asking for nerfs, but that is the only thing we can use the extra mass of the bigger ships for, extra weapons not extra armor/shields. Having more mass and being less maneuverable should have it's advandages also. Sure, easier to hit but it should be able to withstand more hits. Not calling a Nerf on A-wings or any other light craft. Leave the damage as it is, leave the ships as they are,just bring armor and shields up to par or allow ships with more mass to carry more of each. Each ship has it's own role, so give it to them.
2.- Make MP Ships Way Stronger.
Enough said, It takes at least 3 people to minimal take it into combat, they have 500k mass, therefore, they should be feared and though as hell to destroy. Right now they are pretty much useless other than getting yourself killed in PvP. They should withstand several missile hits before going down. Make them more maneuverable aswell now that you are at it.
Regards,
S-1-l2-H-C
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:51 am
#3
damage needs to come down to about 50% instead of 75% like it is now (i think the devs forgot to factor in wo3, so cutting damage in half makes since)
also high level shields need to be made much more powerful. if you made it so that lvl9-10 shields got up to around 5k strength then that would make the larger ships viable in pvp since they could take a few hits from smaller ships while still blowing them away with a single shot.
what im getting at here is that right now my awing has an re'd lvl8 shield that is better than anything else i have ever seen, i cant get heavier shields in my bwing than my awing, so that makes the bwing next to useless. there should be heavier shields that the light ships cant mount due to mass.
also high level shields need to be made much more powerful. if you made it so that lvl9-10 shields got up to around 5k strength then that would make the larger ships viable in pvp since they could take a few hits from smaller ships while still blowing them away with a single shot.
what im getting at here is that right now my awing has an re'd lvl8 shield that is better than anything else i have ever seen, i cant get heavier shields in my bwing than my awing, so that makes the bwing next to useless. there should be heavier shields that the light ships cant mount due to mass.
Coran_Sienar
Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:11 am
#4
If there is decreased damage, Capacitor to Shield Shunt will be problematic. With the Capacitor Overload programs, you can wipe away a tremendous amount of damage to your shields.
Personally, I like the fast pace of the 25% damage reduction in PvP. On the other thand, there's no ship out there that I can't destroy in two shots with my X-Wing. Right now, PvP is all about situational awareness and maneuvering for snap shots. I like it a lot. Unfortunately, it's a matter of personal taste and it's hard to be "right" or "wrong" about such issues.
However, for those of you who want to decrease PvP damage, more, I welcome you to go up and PvP using just low level guns that do 75% less damage (or whatever damage reduction you're arguing for) and try it before you demand it. If you're on the Tarquinas server, I'll be happy to help you in your tests.
EDIT: On the other hand, MP ships REALLY need to be something else than large sitting ducks in PvP. But this could be addressed with powerful500K+ mass components designed to fit only on MP ships.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 02-15-2005 09:12 AM
sumner
Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:26 am
#5
I personally like the hyper-pace of space pvp as it is right now. I don't think that a further damage reduction will help, if anything that will lead to space pvp being more like the ground game when two TKMs take each other on fully buffed and wearing 80% kinetic armor. As stated above it would lead to problems with capacitor to shield shunt, easily negating any damage done to an opponent. This program is very usefull in PvE though, so I'd hate to see it nerfed. Fixing WO3 so it uses the proper amount of energy would be a good start to the fix, that would lower the damage on about 90% of the ships out there.
I think what I'd like to see is modifiers built into the hull, like for engines, that adjust shield strength, a b-wing would get something like a 2 boost, an x-wing would get a 1.0, Tie Interceptors would get a .75, along with a-wings. This would exagerate the handling vs. toughtness even further.
Multiplayer ships need to be true tanks, and something to be feared. I would never consider taking on three or more overt pilots alone, but wouldn't think twice about hammering a multiplayer ship, it just isn'tmuch tougher than a single fighter. Give them something along the lines of a 5.0 shield and armor modifer, but slow them down even more, to like .7 or so (I think they are .8 now)
As space PvP stands now, it is thrilling, fast, and exciting. You have to be on top of the situation 100% of the time, one mess up and you are done. I'd really hate to see it downgraded to the point where dogfights last 20 minutes, space is much more demanding than the groundgame, you aren't just pushing buttons, you are flying, aiming, adjusting speed and pushing buttons!
As for getting more people to PvP in space, make a PvP rank system like /checkpvp for the ground. Right now most people see no point in space PvP, you don't even get confirmation of a kill 
At this point there really isn't much more reason to PvP on the ground, but tons of people do it for status and rank. So far the only way I can show a space PvP rank is to write my kills/death ratioin my profile. Unfortuantely i could just as easily say it is 200/1 instead of the 5/1 it actually is.
At this point there really isn't much more reason to PvP on the ground, but tons of people do it for status and rank. So far the only way I can show a space PvP rank is to write my kills/death ratioin my profile. Unfortuantely i could just as easily say it is 200/1 instead of the 5/1 it actually is.
ajag
Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:19 am
#7
Although I think WO3 should be fixed, I don't think this is going to do much for PvP fights. It takes 2 shots to take down any fighter and I ma sure that even if you fix WO3, you will still get more than 2 shots out of your capacitor. We need to look at the whole problem and fix it without creating balance issues. I like thefast paced PvP action we have in place right now. However, currently in game there is no benefits in using a heavier ship because it still gets destroyed in 2 shots. If everyone was flying a-wings this would not be an issue but since everyone wants to use different ships and not be rebels, give particular advantages to different ships. Do not nerf any ships, just make the extra mass and lack of maneuverability count for something.
lund0529
Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:30 am
#8
PvP isn't any fun for me if it's over in a couple of shots. Damage needs to be adjusted to something similar to on the ground. There should be a reason to use specials, and time to react after you figure out someone is firing on you.
psikobunny
Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:37 am
#9
PvP isn't any fun for me if it lasts forever. Damage on the ground makes may duels long and pointless. Maybe some pilot specials need to be tweaked to help in PvP, but 2 and a half seconds is plenty of time to react, given a normally functioning nervous system and adequate doses of caffeine.
ajag
Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:42 am
#10
As far as I know there are no specials that willr eally help you in PvP unless you are planning to call a bomber strike on someone. Asa privateer I cannot see any of the specials that would help me as they are all intended for PvE. Regarless, Please do not make PvP reflect what is on the ground right now because that sucks! Watching two people hit eachother for an hours and see them get no damage what so ever. That is very boring. All that has to be done, is balance the ships (maybe add modifyers to them). By balancing, I do not mean NERF. Just make it that heavier ships can carry better armor to make up for hte extra weight.
A good way to do this would be by making certain armor ship class dependant. So make armor for fighter ships, bombers and multi-purpose ships. The armor that bombers can use would be thicker. than that for fighters just to compensate for the lack of maneuverability. Don't make armor much heavier tan what it already is because then not even the heavy ships would be able to use tem and still carry the same fire power.
sumner
Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:15 am
#11
ajag
I really like your idea, having some componets specific to certain ships makes a lot of sense. This way we could have heavier armor and shielding for the slower less manuverable ships. As it stands now there is no reason for an imp ace to use a tie bomber. The Oppressor is just as capable, and handles significantly better. Having bomber specific armor could change this, If I could have two ro three times the toughness I wouldn't mind flying the drunk cow. It could also be implemented for engines, so we could have fast attack craft, and slow heavy hitters. As it is now, with things only limited by energy and mass (and a mild chassis modifer) my decimator is as fast as NPC a-wings! Only the largest ships can use the fastest engines, and things like a-wings and tie interceptors should have access to light fast engines.
I also think when people were refering to pilot specials they were refering to droid commands, not just the faction specific abilities. With these I really don't think there is much need to ballance, since they are available to all pilots with a minimal amount of work...I got all of them by searching vendors for less than 30 minutes.
quadpers0n
Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:16 am
#12
There's been soooo many threads on this before, do we really need to rehash everything in another thread? I mean I think you could probably get a consensus on the issue by reading other threads over rather than force us to write the same arguements out for the 10th time.
1. one shot PVP is a myth. please, someone explain to me how you can fly any ship under 40k mass with a gun that will one shot a player with adequate shields.
i pvp with a lvl 5 gun because it is light. it does not take 1 shot to kill a player it takes 4-5. It took me 14 shots 2 nights ago to bring down a decimator. If PVP damage is reduced farther it will take me 28 shots to bring down that decimator. Fair? Sure, ok, maybe.
Now look at it from another perspective. It would take me 5-10 shots to bring down a player oppressor. With my alt in that oppressor, and my twin 4.7k damage .35 refire guns, I would still be able to take down any player in one shot. So now it takes an average player with mediocre equipment 8-10 or even more, shots to bring me down, while I have no penalty whatsoever and the true crux of the issue, being one shotted while in MP ships would not even be solved.
Right now, the way things are set up, I can effectively PVP in any ship save a MP ship. Think I'm wrong? I've killed players in everything from a kihraz to an oppressor to an agressor. Reduce damage further and everyone will be flying the overmassed Awing and heavy fighters.
The real solution is to fix the rediculously broken weapon overcharge 3. Players like me are out there with guns doing 7k damage spamming shots with no penalties. Fix that bug first and then decide what needs to be done withPVP. When you have only 10 shots a capacitor you aren't going to be throwing out a stream of death and it's going to be much more difficult.
Introduce massive shields into the game for MP ships and leave PVP damage alone. Any further tweaking to the system will make it exactly like the ground game out there and doom us to that dynamic until the developers get enough free time to provide space with it's own combat revamp. DON'T push us down that road folks. We don't need space to become an equipment war with nobody flying MP ships and nobody flying light ships either. We don't want space PVP to become something where you NEED 4 months of loot behind you to be effective. And believe me, this is coming from someone who has some of the best loot on my server. I'm not the best pilot out there but I can and will land a shot or two. The way things work now anyone can PVP and anyone can be effective with any ship save the MP ones. Fix that first. Fix bugs first, then start talking about what needs to be changed. Not the other way around.
If needs be there are plenty of other good ideas out there to make PVP 2-3 shots without a damage reduction. excess damage per shot against a shield discarded is one such idea. we can come up with others if need be.
Just remember though, with WCO3 i'm doing around 10k+ per shot. reduce that by 75% and i'm still killing everyone with one shot. what will we clamor for next a 95% reduction? nerfed guns?I pvp plenty now. So do many other people. People saying they don't PVP because of one shot kills are the minority. People don't PVP cause there's no incentive to do so, another thing that needs to be fixed FIRST.
ajag
Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 am
#13
Just for the record, I am not asking to lower PvP damage. Damage should stay as it is, but ships do need to get balanced to what they are. Right now there is no reason to use anything other than the A-wing for rebels, the dunelizzard for freelancers and not sure which one for imps. I agree, WO3 has to be fixed but that is not the whole solution.
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